Scapa Flow - ponunciation - Scappa or Scarpa

[Neeves]

It has nothing to do with what is right or wrong - its whether one should pander to and embellish ignorance or stick to accuracy. Simply speak to locals - who presumably know (and some of whom have passed opinion here).

So what's it to be - perpetuate an error or in a small way try to redress the wrong and go for accuracy.

No wonder journalists get a bad press

Jonathan

 

[prv]

my neighbours are northerners

they insist upon calling the town of Bath with a hard A

however, the locals call it Barth

I tend to think of Bristol as fairly local to Bath.

I had a mate at uni who was known as "Brizzle" for his strong Bristolian accent.

He calls it "Baaff", which isn't quite either of the above, but closer to your neighbours'.

Pete

 

[Kelpie]

Good evening, it's scarper, as in the cockney rhyming slang, Scapa Flow = go. Another one in that neck of the woods is Cape Wrath, it rhymes with cape moth, broth, goth or cloth. Enjoy the sunshine, LD.

No no no on all counts

And while we're on the subject: Scallop rhymes with gallop. Every TV chef gets that one wrong.

 

[Robert Wilson]

No no no on all counts

And while we're on the subject: Scallop rhymes with gallop. Every TV chef gets that one wrong.

Thank you. I am vindicated, at last.

Whoever heard of the Queen going home up the Moll ?

 

[[70521]]

Personally, I prefer Highland Park to Scapa but that a matter of preference. By the time I've had a few, pronunciation doesn't matter too much.

I am with Duncan99210 in this.

When we lived on Hoy it was Scapa.

Scarpa is something quite different http://www.scarpa.co.uk/

 

[macd]

It's called an intrusive r, and is practiced by sassenachs who know no better.

Not at all. The 'r' in question has clearly been borrowed from the thread heading precisely for this purpose. Technically this is known as rs about.

 

[Kelpie]

And another one that comes to mind: Mallaig is pronounced almost exactly like Malaga but minus the last 'a'.

Oh and, too late now, but Lybster starts with a 'lie' rather than a 'lib'

(That's enough pedantry for one morning!)

 

[awol]

I feel we should encourage wee Nicola to take a leaf out of "call me Dave"'s book and threaten to export all those who cannae speak proper. That would certainly include Dylan with his intrusive "r"s.

 

[Neeves]

Oh and, too late now, but Lybster starts with a 'lie' rather than a 'lib'

(That's enough pedantry for one morning!)

Strange lot, no wonder 'separated by a common language' - we call them crayfish here

Jonathan

 

[JumbleDuck]

I had never heard it pronounced in any other way than it is spelt, why complicate it - the Scots are well known for being economical so why add an 'r' in the middle.

Pronouncing things "as they are spelt" isn't always as easy as it seems. I have a friend who teaches in a local primary school, and the children get bemused by the commercial phonics scheme they use, which assumes that "four" and "for" sound identical.

On a related note, my crew was reciting to me a poem which has to been learned for Burns' Night and I was interested to hear "a'" (as in "for 'a that and 'a that") pronounced "aw", in the Galloway style and not "ah" as we do in the central belt.

 

[Mister E]

I always thought Scarpa was what you did before the Rozzers got there.

 

[dylanwinter]

It has nothing to do with what is right or wrong - its whether one should pander to and embellish ignorance or stick to accuracy. Simply speak to locals - who presumably know (and some of whom have passed opinion here).

So what's it to be - perpetuate an error or in a small way try to redress the wrong and go for accuracy.

No wonder journalists get a bad press

Jonathan

which locals do I believe though?

the harbour master pronounced it one way - the bloke in the Yole another

loving this thread

been told not to go to places because my accent is wrong,

that I should not spread lies

that it is not even called Scapa

that a semi- official on line dictionary is wrong

However, I am a southerner and to go to scotland and then suddenly start speaking in a scottish accent every time I named a place or a thing would be weird

and

which accent should I adopt - when referring to Scotland's second city should I harden the A and shorten the ow as in glasgow while I am sailing near there and then when I move further North soften it to match the way that the Orcadians/Shetlands would pronounce it

I shall stick with what the Glasgow Herald kindly described as "Winter's semi-suburban Essex Drone"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_England_with_counterintuitive_pronunciations:_A–L

our language is changing all the time - and American is taking over

I caught my son saying that sailing is "addicting" - which is a bit of American slipping into his language

I think that once a place becomes famous enough for more people to misponounce its name than those who pronounce it the old way used by some of the old blokes sitting by the harbour then it is time to change

following this debate I am minded to to continue to call it Scarpa, carry on talking about Paris and using the words Chimney and Skeleton rather than Chimbly and Skellington. I shall also not start calling our own dear currency a "poond".

I fear that the angry scots will just have to suck up my execrable mispronunciations until they can find some-one of their own who is prepared to put some effort in make some films about sailing around this group of islands.

this is as nothing compared to the angry emails from outraged Scottish people for what one person described as my "negative obsession" with Jacobites.

I think what he meant was that my interpretation did not align precisely with his own deep seated sense of victimhood that had been engendered in him over the years of blaming the English for all that is wrong in the World.

The Christians are also after me for mentioning continental drift without saying that it is only a theory. I have been called Bigot for not beleiving that it was all done and dusted in seven days.

Incidentally, I have just bought a Google Chromecast - and although I say it myself - my films look bloody brilliant on a big telly. I have never seen them in HD before

here is the youtube version of the film in question

 

[Neeves]

Dylan,

You must be upset - you are starting to post whole sentences, well almost. Calm down, we are only teasing you

Jonathan

edit

PS - you are lucky - we were in Glasgow and Greenock in June (I know its a long way from Sydney) I had to translate for my wife. She could not understand a word. Its not often she looks at me admiringly - but my linguistic skills are still marvelled at.

close edit

 

[JumbleDuck]

However, I am a southerner and to go to scotland and then suddenly start speaking in a scottish accent every time I named a place or a thing would be weird

Absolutely. Nobody minds posh English (sorry) in Scotland, but posh English trying to be Scottish tends to provoke a degree of mockery. You'll be understood whether you say Wrath as in moth or Wrath as in math. Probably worth trying to get Gaelic places names approximately right, though.

 

[Sybarite]

It's called an intrusive r, and is practiced by sassenachs who know no better.

People who know, pronounce it as it is spelled. Simple.

Similar to those English who pronounced Le Havre, Le Harve?

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

Another good one is Restronguet.

Pete

 

[johnalison]

We southerners have a long and honourable tradition of mispronouncing place names, which I hope will continue. I would feel an idiot if I tried to say Glazgoo, and I would probably get my face altered for even trying up there.

 

[Kelpie]

Absolutely. Nobody minds posh English

Guess you live in a different bit of Scotland to me then!

 

[prv]

Another good one is Restronguet.

:encouragement:

Pete

 

[AntarcticPilot]

thanks for that

one of the problems with this journey is getting the names right

because in some cases there is no right

locals might call a place one way - outsiders another

if I went up the Seine to Paris and pronounced it Parree people would think I am bonkers

I come from Holloway in London - the locals pronounce it with a glottal stop instead of an H

D

in the end I went with scarpa

https://vimeo.com/152876354

I know at least three pronunciations for the River Nene, and I gather all are used at different points along the river. The "right" pronunciation sometimes depends on where you're standing!

FWIW, I've always understood it to be "Scarpa" Flow, and I'm pretty sure more people pronounce it that way than any other. However, the minority opinion might well be the inhabitants!

It's interesting how often the "English" name of Scottish places is simply an anglicization of the Gaelic. For example, "Corryvreckan", for "Coire Bhreacain" - the pronunciation is very similar!