Says it all

[Woodlouse]

Retractable bowsprits eh! Thats fancy for you now.

I can see how it would work and boy oh boy having it retracted must reduce the anxiety factor getting it into a berth.

Oh yes. The joy of reducing the boat from nearly 50 feet to 35 is great when going into tight harbours. It's also fun knocking 12 feet of the LOA when the harbour master is trying to charge you for the full length.

 

[prv]

PRV, my (in build) boat is slightly smaller than yours and has the stem head as the main forestay attachment. As I will be folding up the sprite, is it a big hassle with the the furler attached to the cranse iron?

I too have the forestay to the stemhead (well, to the top of the gammon iron) alongside the staysail on a modern furler. My bowsprit runs in horizontally through the gammon iron, which I have covered with greased leather. The jib (with Wykeham Martin) shackled to the end is no trouble at all; when the sprit is pulled in the jib sits neatly parallel to the staysail. It sags down initially, but I nip up on the halyard after bringing the sprit in.

If you're steeving the bowsprit up instead of pulling it in then things will be a little different. I assume you won't have enough gap between the head of the jib and the masthead block to be able to steeve it up on the jib halyard. You might need some other halyard or lift to pull it up with, unless you decide you can just manhandle it (if your boat is smaller than mine it's pretty tiny ). In this situation the jib is also going to hang loose pretty inevitably. Might need a small lashing to the forestay or staysail to stop it swinging around? I have seen boats set up like this though (think it's how some of the newer Crabbers work) so it is doable.

Pete

 

[prv]

Retractable bowsprits eh! Thats fancy for you now.

Yep. The yard guy where I moor got very excited when he took his tape measure and found that we were "occupying" 35 feet while paying for 24. A quick change to pulling in the sprit instead of leaving it out and our bills have not altered.

As well as the bowsprit we also have a bumkin which can be hitched up.

Pete

 

[Little Rascal]

Lifelines-well, the bulwarks are about 12/14", and as he single hands her most of the time is unlikley to lose anyone!

Insurance? whats that got to do with lifelines?

Hi Nick

I seem to remember something in CB about the classic charters running in to MCA coding over this though? I might be wrong but I think there was a bit of a hoo hah...

Jon

 

[DownWest]

I too have the forestay to the stemhead (well, to the top of the gammon iron) alongside the staysail on a modern furler. My bowsprit runs in horizontally through the gammon iron, which I have covered with greased leather. The jib (with Wykeham Martin) shackled to the end is no trouble at all; when the sprit is pulled in the jib sits neatly parallel to the staysail. It sags down initially, but I nip up on the halyard after bringing the sprit in.


Pete

Tiny!! Well 21ft LOD. I might look into space to run it back, rather than the designed hinge, as the idea looks a bit untidy with the jib in a big loop wandering about. As I will be on a swinging mooring it is perhaps not a problem, but food for thought. Thanks.
A

 

[Woodlouse]

Hi Nick

I seem to remember something in CB about the classic charters running in to MCA coding over this though? I might be wrong but I think there was a bit of a hoo hah...

Jon

For MCA coding you will need guard rails. But you only need that if you are using the boat for commercial means and will have paying guests aboard. A private boat, such as pictured is under no such requirements.

 

[prv]

Tiny!! Well 21ft LOD. I might look into space to run it back, rather than the designed hinge, as the idea looks a bit untidy with the jib in a big loop wandering about. As I will be on a swinging mooring it is perhaps not a problem, but food for thought. Thanks.

I wouldn't worry about it on a mooring. I never pull the sprit in except alongside (and not usually there unless someone's getting shirty about length or the entry looks particularly tight).

I think it's worth having the ability, especially if your design puts the main forestay at the stemhead anyway. This also means you'll have a tackle on the bobstay instead of a fixed one, and that is an advantage when moored or anchored, as you can let it off and hoik the chain up out of the way so the cable or strop isn't graunching against it.

If you're only stowing the bowsprit occasionally, I wouldn't worry about the jib hanging in a loop. Like I said, a bit of whammy round the forestay to stop it swinging and you're fine for the odd night alongside. Or you could leave it shackled in place but drop the halyard and lead the sail along the bowsprit to stow on the foredeck?

If you did decide to pull it in instead of stick it up, and you don't have much foredeck space, you could do what one class of modern gaffer (think it might be the Memory?) does and poke the heel of it through a specially-placed opening porthole in the cabin front

Pete

 

[Nick Costen]

If you did decide to pull it in instead of stick it up, and you don't have much foredeck space, you could do what one class of modern gaffer (think it might be the Memory?) does and poke the heel of it through a specially-placed opening porthole in the cabin front

Pete

No, the Memory's bowsprit is fixed - she's a sloop, so the forestay runs to the cranse iron. The gammon iron is closed and the bowsprit butts up against the Sampson post. Of course, that's how it's done on our recent model built by Saltern's; there are older ones built by other makers (or at home) which may have other arrangements.

The ClassicMarine website mentioned up-thread mentions the "Brock 24" as using a porthole to reef the bowsprit.

Nick

 

[prv]

The ClassicMarine website mentioned up-thread mentions the "Brock 24" as using a porthole to reef the bowsprit.

That's possibly the one I was thinking of. I don't remember it being a flush-decked boat, but quite likely it's my recollection that's faulty. No idea why I thought of the Memory.

Pete

 

[cliffordpope]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s138/Cliffordpope/Atanchor.jpg

The jib works in the classic way, with a W-M hauled out to the end of the bowsprit. Once wound up, the bundle can be left out on the bowsprit, hauled in far enough to tie it to the forestay (as pictured), pulled right in and tied to the mast so that the bowsprit can be pulled in, or unhooked and coiled up.

The bowsprit runs to the right of the stemhead, over bitts formed by the central sampson post and another post with a knee. Because of the sheer of the hull, the bowsprit can be pulled right in and lies in a chock on the coach roof. The sprit and the roof are horizontal.

Pulling in the bowsprit reduces the overall length to 21', saving 7' 6", which puts the mooring charges in the lowest bracket by length.

 

[Seagreen]

There is no twisting issue on the halyard as it is a 4:1 with a fast end and a slow end with tweeker. There is one single block each side of the mast so it can't twist, and works well.

As its Victorious I'll apologise for the sprayhood comment. However, I do have a persistent halyard twist, with the same set up (ie., fast side stbd, doubler tackle on the port, with fixed sheaves). Maybe he uses Dyneema? My braided rope resists all attempts at untwisting. The WM top swivel seems to encourage it.

Running bowsprit is lots of fun, but it can be a tricky job to run in and out by myself, and I wouldn't like to do it in a seaway. The big advantage is the whole shebang can be removed to the garage for varnishing over the winter. Thee only gripe is that the sheaves on the bobstay tackle are too small for the rope, which jams and needs mangling with the boathook. Sounds like another winter job, to me..

 

[TQA]

Read the great story of the rescue and rebuild of Victorious and learned a lot about bowsprits thanks for all the information on the way they sailed working boats.

I am in the lower Windwards for hurricane season and there is a bit of a resurgence in boatbuilding and racing. In Carriacou I watched them doing some fairly radical modifications to lengthen and widen a couple of the local racing boats in preparation for race week, one guy was working on the bowsprit cranse iron, at least I know the proper name for it now.

 

[BrendanS]

Its Russell, on Victorious, I presume back down in Plymouth.

and in case anyone here hasn't seen it before, have a look at this video of the restoration!

http://www.victorious.co.uk/images3/IndustrialWeb.wmv

 

[prv]

His website is http://www.victorious.co.uk/#

Is anyone else having trouble with this? I can see the initial page, but clicking on the "main menu" button doesn't do anything. I've tried on Safari, Firefox and Chrome; I can't try IE as I use a Mac at home and Linux at work.

Pete

 

[Seanick]

The problem with bowsprits....

Is if you try and carry full sail in 38knts of wind......

..They snap off very quickly!

Whoops!
(OGA Cowes/Lymington race a couple of weeks ago)


Thanks to Russell on Victorious for the pic!

 

[Woodlouse]

Is if you try and carry full sail in 38knts of wind......

..They snap off very quickly!

Whoops!
(OGA Cowes/Lymington race a couple of weeks ago)


Thanks to Russell on Victorious for the pic!

What happened to your whiskers? This is the first time I've heard of wind alone breaking a bowsprit. Usually they snap off after being dunked.

 

[Seanick]

Whiskers.......10mm wire....5:1 vectran reeved through Tufnol 14mm blocks rated at 1.7t breaking strain.....block 'exploded', therefore load must be greater than 1.7t.
Conclusion: must suck through teeth a bit more ('fudge factor') when calculating loadings.....
Also...fit a spreader on the stbd side to increase the angle 'a bit more'.

 

[Woodlouse]

Ouch.

Manufacturing flaw in the block maybe? Have you considered using a lashing instead of a block? You won't be able to adjust it so easily, but if it's tight with the bowsprit extended then you shouldn't have to. Unless you make a habit of reefing it.

 

[Seanick]

Both blocks show signs of stress, so I will just put bigger ones on.

I did have lashings, but they are a PITA to get tight, requiring hanging over the bulwarks on the leward side whilst under sail trying to get them as tight as poss. As the sprit is 20' outboard it is nice to be able to get it in, although we do ask for the 'Beautiful Boat Discount' on the few times we have to go in a marina. If that does not work then we say that we can bring it in, but we will have to charge you, as it takes a while!
The lashings have been under as much load but never broke, so I am paying the price for 'improvement and convenience and not keeping it simple (stupid)!!

 

[Kukri]

The bowsprit rigging takes quite a load and the spread is not very good - if you think about it the bobstay must be under at least twice the load on the jib halyard (assuming jib set flying) and so on. We've now got a great big bronze plate inside the stem scarph with three big bolts to the bobstay fitting after noticing that the stem scarph was being literally pulled apart!