Saving lives at sea - observations on TV prog

[MoodySabre]

No knocking of the RNLI.

They seem to missed the opportunity to give any advice. The last episode showed them rescuing two kayakers in open sea after being alerted by a person on land. No comment made that in open water that they should had some means of communication with them.

When we ran an MOB recovery session last year we invited the local lifeboat to send someone and they declined as they had no expertise in recovery to yachts. Well they obviously have no expertise in recovery to RIBs either. I've have expected better than using a floating lifeline as a foot strap or relying on the belt loops on jeans to get a handhold. A bit of a shambles.

 

[Mark-1]

I've have expected better than using a floating lifeline as a foot strap or relying on the belt loops on jeans to get a handhold. A bit of a shambles.

Maybe they have got something better but in this case they didn't need to use it? Hard to draw conclusions from a TV show.

 

[[70521]]

No knocking of the RNLI.

They seem to missed the opportunity to give any advice. The last episode showed them rescuing two kayakers in open sea after being alerted by a person on land. No comment made that in open water that they should had some means of communication with them.

When we ran an MOB recovery session last year we invited the local lifeboat to send someone and they declined as they had no expertise in recovery to yachts. Well they obviously have no expertise in recovery to RIBs either. I've have expected better than using a floating lifeline as a foot strap or relying on the belt loops on jeans to get a handhold. A bit of a shambles.

It's a TV program, a million miles from the truth.

 

[Giblets]

In both cases they got the casualty on board the RIB though didn't they. As was mentioned in a recent previous thread on the subject the program is made for the entertainment of the non-boating public so the finer technical points are glossed over. Have to agree about the missed opportunity regarding the communications point.

 

[ylop]

No knocking of the RNLI.
Well they obviously have no expertise in recovery to RIBs either. I've have expected better than using a floating lifeline as a foot strap or relying on the belt loops on jeans to get a handhold. A bit of a shambles.

are you sure about both those statements?
How many casualties have you recovered to a rib? Both techniques work, both have some advantages for different situations. Which technique would you have preferred? Most others are slower. My only change would be to have the casualty facing away - but that is only usually needed if the basic approach fails.

As for safety "advice", they usually prefer not to lecture (it puts people off calling them) and leave the sanctimonious speech at a time when nobody is actually taking notes to the coastguard shore team who almost invariably meet them.

 

[Mark-1]

are you sure about both those statements?
How many casualties have you recovered to a rib? Both techniques work, both have some advantages for different situations. Which technique would you have preferred? Most others are slower. My only change would be to have the casualty facing away - but that is only usually needed if the basic approach fails.

On reflection I think the idea that the RNLI haven't considered recovering people to RIBs is laughable. It's a significant part of what they've been doing for decades. Apart from Watersports related rescue/tow boats I doubt anyone picks more people out of the water. Most likely they have kit to recover people from the water and if they haven't it's because they found they didn't need kit to do it.

As for safety "advice", they usually prefer not to lecture (it puts people off calling them)

Hmmm, seems to me that slagging off the rescuee in the press/tv/Facebook/Twitter is standard operating procedure for the RNLI, and yes, it will make people delay calling them. I'm convinced the Independents aren't as 'bad' but I'm willing to be corrected.

 

[MoodySabre]

Well a non- floating line would have been better. Even a short weighted soft ladder.

No sanctimonious speech necessary just a quick " we do advise people to take with them some means of communication, even a phone in a waterproof bag". Saving lives at sea is about more than rescues. I appreciate that it is an entertainment programme and much is made of the lifeboatmen' buzz from rescuing someone.

 

[savageseadog]

The Tower watch (Thames, central London) seemed pretty grim.

 

[prv]

On reflection I think the idea that the RNLI haven't considered recovering people to RIBs is laughable. It's a significant part of what they've been doing for decades. Most likely they have kit to recover people from the water and if they haven't it's because they don't need kit to do it.

Agree - and I think the answer is "don't need kit" as I've never seen any suggestion of such kit being carried or used. Three fit lifeboat crew are able to get people over a low inflatable tube without any complicating appliances, and don't forget they're all in drysuits so can easily get into the water to help if needed.

Hmmm, seems to me that slagging off the rescuee in the press/tv/Facebook/Twitter is standard operating procedure for the RNLI

To the extent that they do it (and I don't think "slagging off as standard procedure" is accurate), I think that's a shore office PR function rather than the crews on the water.

The one that surprised me this week was the yacht with engine trouble in the Dover Straits - there seemed to be a nice breeze and there was no sign or mention of any rig problems, so why weren't they just sailing? The skipper did mention "trying to use the front sail" which made me think perhaps they were just a pair of incompetents, but then we found out they were returning in their own boat from two weeks sailing around Holland, which presumably is not something anyone would undertake while unaware of how to set a sail.

Presumably there's some rational explanation which was missed out of the programme as uninteresting to shore people.

Pete

 

[Juan Twothree]

Hmmm, seems to me that slagging off the rescuee in the press/tv/Facebook/Twitter is standard operating procedure for the RNLI, and yes, it will make people delay calling them. I'm convinced the Independents aren't as 'bad' but I'm willing to be corrected.

It most certainly isn't standard operating procedure.

But define "slagging off". If it is pertinent to the story, then we are encouraged to add a one-line piece of safety advice at the bottom of a press release, perhaps regarding using inflatables in strong offshore winds, or carrying an anchor, or whatever may be relevant. But remember that individuals are never named, unless they wish to be, and any photos or video footage in which a person is identifiable is only released with their express permission. In fact, when we upload such media to the RNLI Press Office, which vets what is released, we specifically have to confirm that such permissions have been obtained. I personally have been involved in some cracking rescues which would have made compelling TV viewing, but there was no way that the people concerned would have given their consent.

However, pictures or mobile phone footage is often passed to news websites or posted on Facebook directly from members of the public, and that is obviously outside the RNLI's control. As are "below the line" comments from readers, which is where a lot of the criticism seems to take place.

 

[Mark-1]

To the extent that they do it (and I don't think "slagging off as standard procedure" is accurate), I think that's a shore office PR function rather than the crews on the water.

I'm sure that's true 99pc of the time. (Although in the case that got discussed on here a couple of weeks back the crew had gone through the rescuee's bag and then used the contents against him on TV. There was no press officer involved there.)

I guess there's a balance to be struck. If the RNLI represent people they rescue as "captain calamity" then they get more publicity and more revenue. But the downside of that is that people will take risks to avoid calling the RNLI.

 

[Dukester52]

Agree - and I think the answer is "don't need kit" as I've never seen any suggestion of such kit being carried or used. Three fit lifeboat crew are able to get people over a low inflatable tube without any complicating appliances, and don't forget they're all in drysuits so can easily get into the water to help if needed.



To the extent that they do it (and I don't think "slagging off as standard procedure" is accurate), I think that's a shore office PR function rather than the crews on the water.

The one that surprised me this week was the yacht with engine trouble in the Dover Straits - there seemed to be a nice breeze and there was no sign or mention of any rig problems, so why weren't they just sailing? The skipper did mention "trying to use the front sail" which made me think perhaps they were just a pair of incompetents, but then we found out they were returning in their own boat from two weeks sailing around Holland, which presumably is not something anyone would undertake while unaware of how to set a sail.

Presumably there's some rational explanation which was missed out of the programme as uninteresting to shore people.

Pete

We've also been considering this, as it did seem quite odd. Having the sails up might have also steadied the motion a little, helping with the seasick crew? I guess they may have reported engine failure in the shipping lanes and the coastguard might have told them to stay put? I'd love to know more about that particular story - I'm sure there's more to it than meets the eye!

 

[Giblets]

The one that surprised me this week was the yacht with engine trouble in the Dover Straits - there seemed to be a nice breeze and there was no sign or mention of any rig problems, so why weren't they just sailing? The skipper did mention "trying to use the front sail" which made me think perhaps they were just a pair of incompetents, but then we found out they were returning in their own boat from two weeks sailing around Holland, which presumably is not something anyone would undertake while unaware of how to set a sail.

Presumably there's some rational explanation which was missed out of the programme as uninteresting to shore people.

Pete

Pete, I suspect he may have issued a Pan Pan and the CG decided to send the LB based on his position. The demeanor of his good lady wife may have had something to do with the situation as well! However the incident must have had the producers wetting 'em selves with joy at the jeopardy factor involving big ships!!!

 

[Yellow Ballad]

A paniced and sick wife I think was the main reason for the call is what I got from it.

For the hour it took the LB to get out they could have sailed out of the lanes and took a tow closer to port. I did notice they said the motion from the tow wasn't great so maybe sailing out would have been the better option. I'm guessing they would still have needed a tow into harbour or anchor off and get the engine working.

 

[Mark-1]

But define "slagging off". .

A newsreader who's name escapes me is the perfect example. Sailing in the Solent he had engine failure. There was enough wind for him to sail, it wasn't a problem and he didn't call for help. Solent Coastguard called the RNLI. The RNLI went out and presented the whole (non)event in pejorative terms and had the media on the pontoon *before* he'd even arrived. He'd done nothing wrong, didn't need help and hadn't asked for help yet he's in the National press as this weeks 'Captain Calamity'. Would Gaffirs have done that? I don't think so. I *know* Seastart wouldn't.

 

[penberth3]

...Hmmm, seems to me that slagging off the rescuee in the press/tv/Facebook/Twitter is standard operating procedure for the RNLI...

Don't agree with that. Most reports I've seen have been entirely "non-judgemental", I'm sure any advice is given in private, as it should be.

Comparing with Mountain Rescue, again it's very rare to hear public criticism of a casualty. I've often seen the opposite, maybe a bit of reverse psychology, where rescued people are praised for having the right gear and doing the right things. Something went wrong, they could have survived a night out, but got some help anyway.

 

[Sybarite]

. My only change would be to have the casualty facing away - but that is only usually needed if the basic approach fails.

I didn't see the programme and so I don't know if this comment is apt. When we did our lifesaving lessons and wanted to get somebody out of the water you crossed your arms and took hold of both of their hands. You then bobbed them up and down a few times to gain momentum and then when you hauled them up you uncrossed your arms at the same time so that you would get their bottom on to the boat/pool edge.

 

[TangaraToo]

A paniced and sick wife I think was the main reason for the call is what I got from it.

For the hour it took the LB to get out they could have sailed out of the lanes and took a tow closer to port. I did notice they said the motion from the tow wasn't great so maybe sailing out would have been the better option. I'm guessing they would still have needed a tow into harbour or anchor off and get the engine working.

The guy did state in the program that he had tried to sail out of the shipping lane but wife started to panic when boat heeled.

 

[lpdsn]

... but then we found out they were returning in their own boat from two weeks sailing around Holland, which presumably is not something anyone would undertake while unaware of how to set a sail.

Rather a lengthy thread on that theme on SA. Sadly it would appear the subject of the thread is not going to get another chance to learn.

 

[lpdsn]

A newsreader who's name escapes me is the perfect example. Sailing in the Solent he had engine failure. There was enough wind for him to sail, it wasn't a problem and he didn't call for help. Solent Coastguard called the RNLI. The RNLI went out and presented the whole (non)event in pejorative terms and had the media on the pontoon *before* he'd even arrived. He'd done nothing wrong, didn't need help and hadn't asked for help yet he's in the National press as this weeks 'Captain Calamity'. Would Gaffirs have done that? I don't think so. I *know* Seastart wouldn't.

How did the coastguard know his engine had failed if he didn't call for help?