sat phone or ssb

[bazobeleza]

Are sat phones becoming so cheap to buy and use as to make them a better alternative to an SSB radio.

If you take into account exams, installtion and initial purchase of a transciever you are looking at the sharp end of 2 1/2 - 3 grand. that money would get you a top flight sat cell phone and a ssb reciever for weather fax with enough over to pay for the calls for a year or so. are sat phones becoming a real alternative or are there things that an ssb set can do that cannot be done by a sat phone?

Im planning a long summer taking the boat to portugal and then maybe across the pond next year so its a bit of forward planning really.

 

[jerryat]

There have been loads and loads of threads n this over the last few months. I'd do a search using 'SSB' or 'Satellite Phone' and read up on those first, then come back if there's still info you need.

 

[trouville]

just a comment, at the moment SSB propergations dreadful! 2008 should be the start of improvement so anything else that works untill the sun spots oblige has to be better.
I havent used mine for more than 2 years! that is i switch on listen to the noise switch off.

If you have one you can comunicate if you arrange with others to call at a fixed time and if that fails to change frequency and try a second time.

Ive met to many crusing boats that have given up mostly becouse the UK net is a pain sticking to GMT meens 11am local in a hot cabin and for nothing!! Just tune into the net on 14303 at 8am GMT and IF you hear anyone try listening and each day for a week!!Then decide!!

you will know why no one bothers with SSB! Ive tried to set up maratime nets but its always failed,i was hopeing a "scutelbut net " could be but it was tried last summer --and failed--

Just ask yourself why and for what you want to communicate? last week i had no connections anywhere! it was wonderful to see just what a waist of time it is!Organised email once a week and a portable phone for sms "to call" is enough

I think we all want to be in touch seems important, butnot as necassary as all that!

I would put my SSB overboard to see what sort of slash it would make but it cost far to much to do that!At the moment i leave it ashore,saves room and the BBC gave up broadcasting some years ago so the news is in French Chinees or German with VOA sometime on Sunday mornings i listen to the French on VHF.

 

[TigaWave]

For me its not the cost.

SSB allows you to keep in touch with people you meet who are quickly out of vhf range, especially on a long passage. It was the best moral booster when in a bad patch of weather to know there are others coping with the same stuff, and hearing their trials and tribulations. Last trip we could only listen to others but even that was worth more than the cost of a phone that I could call home on. Why would you want to call home?

Morning..hows the weather back in Plymouth...its a bit rough here only been knocked down once but its getting tricky doing the cooking...Oh Plymouths a bity windy is it, you can here it howling outside and the bins have blown away, thats terrible you'll have to go out in the rain..

or

Morning how's it where you are? so you went a bit further south in the night then, how are the waves down there? we've managed to damage our gooseneck so we've dropped the main until we can fix it so expect us to slow down a bit, we're about half a day behind you I reckon at the moment. Hows your sick crew are they feeling better, tell them we had a bit of a break in the clouds to the east so its starting to pass through should be over by this evening and we can settle down a bit. have you spoken to .........today? good to hear they're ok and theyve sorted their generator....speak to you this evening then time for breakfast.

 

[Benbow]

What is it like in your surreal Universe ?

last week i had no connections anywhere! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I regularly talk to people 1,000s of miles away by SSB

The BBC gave up broadcasting some years ago /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

So what was I listening to this morning in crystal clear English 4,000 miles from London on my SSB set ?


....given up mostly becouse the UK net is a pain /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I never met anyone for whom the UK net was a reason for getting SSB.

There are pros and cons, and for many purposes sat com has replaced SSB. But SSB still has a niche, if you don't like it don't use it! But don't post such garbage.

 

[zefender]

Obviously, for much of your trip down to Portugal, mobile phones will work fine (but not across Biscay obviously!). I opted for satcoms rather than SSB. Both will connect to the internet but both slow and SSB painfully so. The purchase price isn't the only consideration though. Consider the size of a grib file and work out how much a transfer would cost on satcoms, say Iridium. I have a F33 system - very quick connections (voice and ISDN data speeds) but on a transat recently, my usage bill was $2,000!
I got a SSB receiver as well (not transmit) but despite trying all sorts of things to help the signal, could barely hear very much audible at all (apart from BBC World Service). Herb sounded like he was under 3ft of water! With Iridium, or some other system, you can call a weather centre, friends and family, ports, send email (easily) and call other boats (whose number you know of course). It's portable and now reasonably cheap to buy. ebay sells airtime cards - the nearer these are to expiry, the cheaper they are so if you time it right, you can make big savings here. On balance, for flexibility of use, I'd go for satcoms. IN a waterproof bag, you can even keep it in the grab bag!

 

[tcm]

$2000 bill

it all sounded fine till that bit!

Short of posting an itemised bill, how was this made up?

I was impressed that you seemed to be able to hoik threads on to sbutt from mid atlantic - did you knect in and make a post of did you send someone an email? It seemed you had seen other posts? Surely sbutt mustve been a fair ole lump of data to call up and add to?

Finally of course -were there other nice long chats on the phone every day or every other day, with skip muttering two bleedin grand as the chat proceeded to discuss shopping, weather in london etc. ?

Does the 2grand include an element of subscription eg it's $500 per 3months even if yer don't use it?

 

[Talbot]

Why do you view this as an either or. These days it is better to view these as complementary rather than alternatives.

SSB - used for weather data and for socialising

The other purpose for SSB for some people is the ability to send emails and to contact the folks back home.

These days ship shore HF is very much a thing of the past so you cant use HF for that unless your family are all radio Hams.

The ability to send emails requires a pactor modem which costs about the same amount as an iridium phone but is not as fast for data or as reliable for data (but is cheaper).

The iridium phone will allow calls ashore from anywhere.

Dont forget that the old HF emergency (2182) is no longer manned ashore so you really need a 48hr EPIRB (although Iridium has been used for emergencies)

 

[zefender]

Re: $2000 bill

I'll get out the ratecard but from memory I think its about US$1.75 per minute talktime. I have 2 choices on data - pay by connect time or pay $3.30/mbit (which is not actually much text at all). For the kit itself, I got a total 'switch on' installation with email addresses, fax number etc, laptop configuration for about £6,500 plus VAT. They also sent me an email every couple of weeks to let me know how much I was spending. Service was fab all round. When first using it, crossing Biscay, I was a bit concerned about weather (and anyway calling up lots of maps from the middle of the sea is quite fun at first). I got an email after just 3 days from the dealer, saying that I had used $300 - eek.

You have full web browsing connection. It took me a while to work out that I needed to set my options to not show images etc, unless I wanted to see weather maps from some site or another. So, my posts to the forum were live, direct feeds (and probably stupidly expensive!). I also pay for each email I receive, so I was a bit cautious about handing that out to all and sundry. I connected to my work once, using VPN (but I wouldn't advise that for all sorts of reasons!). I was probably connected, sending or recieving, browsing or speaking, for about 15-20 minutes a day. You can leave the thing 'always on' to the interent, paying only for what you access but this tends to use about 3amps, so not really a good idea. I dunno what the subscription cost is - I'll find out. We also had an iridium as back up (but ebay 'brick' cheapie so talk only, not email) and quality was not as good as Inmarsat. So, fab bit of kit but very expensive to buy and use. Some folk might be lucky enough to get Inland revenue clearance for it as a business expense to keep in touch with work - I did..

 

[npf1]

Re: $2000 bill

Just to add my experience on this. Crossed the Atlantic this year and had both SSB and satphone (Globalstar) on board.

The SSB was useful for talking to Herb, BBC world service and occasionally other boats.

The satphone was marvellous for email, weather and phoning home. The phone was used for a few minutes each day for gribs, wfax and to send/receive an average on 10 mails. There was on average one 5 min call home every day. Total usage costs for the phone for around seven weeks of this amount of usage was £250, which I though was pretty good. It's 0.70 Euros per min, which is less than Vodafone charge for international roaming.

 

[zefender]

Re: $2000 bill

Globalstar is indeed a good value alternative but isn't there a great lump in the Atlantic where you can't get coverage?

 

[npf1]

Re: $2000 bill

Yes, hole in coverage if doing an E-W tradewind crossing, although there's a new ground station in Florida that opened in Jul/Aug 2005 that should improve it and provide good coverage in the Caribbean. The last time I looked, their coverage map had not been updated to reflect this change. I did an W-E crossing via Bermuda and Azores and connected every day without problems.

 

[trouville]

Re: $2000 bill

If your crossing the Atlantic SSBs very useful for chatting to others as said in another post.When i use my SSB which is less often on the boat be aware of the 21amp drain on TX and mostly 1.5amps on recieve

To keep in touch you will need different bands at different times and different distences. You can buy a good second hand SSB for about £300 a new icom 706 costs 750euros in Europe a second hand Kenwood about £250!!! dont ask me my.I posted somewhere the link for an offer a yaesu with ATU for 600EUROS!! They were selling off the old stock

Just look around one thing if you want to email you need a modem which is very expensve about the same price as a rig and quite slow. Unless someone hear tells me im wrong? Hope i am I sent my emails via RTTY they were sent for me and my emails sent back by RTTY if you can find some one to do that.

The BBC dose exist but changes bands very often and is a bit repetative! From 8.30 local to 9am is useualy clear from 8.00am to 8.30 depends today it was clear yesterday not! France is not on the moon its just a bit to the east and south of the UK

 

[pjobson]

Re: $2000 bill

I just got a good deal at the LBS. £2450 for iridium phone, data kit and external arial plus 50 hours talk time (more than I normally use in a year). If you then add another £250 for a NASA SSB receive-only kit then you also get your BBC & Navtex and Weatherfax for free.

 

[jerryat]

Re: $2000 bill

Hi Trouville!!

> .......... be aware of the 21amp drain on TX and mostly 1.5amps on receive <

This is a common error. Most modern HF radios only use the full current when you are actually speaking. This is certainly the case on my Icom 706 MkII HF set for example, and can be clearly proven by observing the ammeter while depressing the transmit button. It will show no current flowing.

Now, if you whistle across the mike or make any other continous sound, you will see the ammeter shoot up as it measures the amps consumed.

In short, while you are actually talking current is used, but it ceases, even in between words, when no power is used, except of course for the minimal standby current.

This is why you cannot 'see' the current being used while you are talking, as the ammeter (even a digital one like mine) cannot respond quickly enough, which is why you need a continuous tone.

BTW, where are you at the moment?

 

[Benbow]

The ability to send emails requires a pactor modem which costs about the same amount as an iridium phone but is not as fast for data or as reliable for data (but is cheaper).

Pactor II hardware is stupidly expensive, I agree, but Pactor 1 is perfectly usable* for text email. Both cost nothing for amateurs to use. Hardware for Pactor 1 can be found on ebay for around £30. I intend to stick with that until SCAMP comes along and does away with the need for a TNC by using the computer's sound card.

But I fully agree, these are not either/or decisions and certainly not worth starting a religious war over. For guaranteed emergency contact I would go for an epirb/sat phone every time**.

*agonisingly slow as opposed to unbelievably slow !

**I heard an alarming story recently. A couple sailing from Seychelles to Kenya were dismasted just 40 miles from the Kenyan shore. They were motor sailing when the rig came down and their engine was wrecked when a load of wire went round the prop. They managed to contact the Kenyan navy by VHF. The Kenyan navy however did absolutely nothing to help them saying they had no boats available! They drifted around for a long long time before a freighter rescued them off Somalia. I bet they wished they had a means of phoning Falmouth MRCC!

 

[trouville]

Re: $2000 bill

your absolutly correct,but normaly when you press the PTT its to chat! Anyway i chat to much and that gives me a huge power problem on a folkboat! And even a small generator weighs a lot and takes (even compact ones) to much space on a FB!

The Folkboats in Toulon and just now im up a mountain not to far away wondering how im ever going to get back up the Rhone.

I really wish Europe had a more liberal attitude to SSB then we could all chat as we discover new afordable places with a space! At the moment there is always one band or another open but to chat about singal strength and QTH flatens my batteries!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: $2000 bill

[ QUOTE ]
your absolutly correct,but normaly when you press the PTT its to chat! Anyway i chat to much and that gives me a huge power problem on a folkboat! And even a small generator weighs a lot and takes (even compact ones) to much space on a FB!

[/ QUOTE ]What you need Trouville is a Bavaria... loads of space i'm told....

 

[Sea Devil]

It really depends where you are cruising. If it is UK - Europe - Med then there is very little reason to install an SSB. The regular nets are few and far between and somehow the life style does not require radio contact as an important element of your life.

When you cross the Atlantic - talking to Herb and sometimes to other boats is useful and if someone really gets into trouble - even you - it is a very good way of keeping in touch.

Once you start to spend any time in the Caribbean then you realise that everybody except charter boats has SSB. It is the primary method of communication. It is also the primary get out of trouble resource - because unlike a telephone many others are listening and may be able to help, offer medical or other advice.

Once you get to the Pacific it is really the only form of communication, Let me promise you Falmouth CC are not in a better position to summon help to you between the Galapagos and Marquesas islands than the 200 odd other yachts and fishermen which are also 'around'. I know which I would choose between the Equador navy and fellow cruising boats if I was in trouble. (no offence to equador)

As for the exams - a total waste of time and money... All sorts of puritanical nonsense is spouted about safety issues and illegal transmissions - all out of date and puerile. buy a ham SSB and get it snipped. say £4-500 Put a couple of insulators in your back stay and probably an automatic tuner and you are on your way - if you are going to places where it is and possibly always will be the primary source of communication between cruising boats. If you are going to the Med don't bother.
Michael

 

[trouville]

sadly thats very true! But then in the med i mostly walk to communicate at the cafe!
Now how could i get to the Pacific??Ill just dream it dose sound really wonderful not to mention all the great people you meet as well! Ahhhhh

What you need Trouville is a Bavaria... loads of space i'm told....

What a wonderful thought! I could live on one in reall comfort! and sail my Folkboat, trips hear and there,and during calms i could move my house,to sail a new area in comfort.

What a very good idea!