sanda - ?access issue?

[bikedaft]

was at sanda overnight wed last week. went for a walk around the island on thursday morning waiting for the tide. there is a new large sign hung on the wall in front of the pub saying "landing only for island residents" or similar. i was too grumpy to take a pic no one about. pub shut for winter.

has anyone been to sanda recently or going to stop by over the winter (i know sailing in november is not everyone's cup of tea!) if so do you have a pic, or could you take one please?

i emailed the owner who replied, stating that the pier was private, and we should stay out of his garden, and that we would not see the sign if we were not in those areas. but you can see it from the whole anchorage. he also suggested i could land anywhere else on the island. i asked him to take it down as per scottish access 2003 etc, but he repeatedly avoided the question.

his website has this para "Dear Guests, that's why we have decided to provide a limited instead of mass access to Sanda Island and hope you will enjoy the treasures here without missing comfort and luxury." from; http://www.sandaislanddreams.com/About-Sanda.html

local council access officer is helpful and thinks sign/website sounds "worrying" and will try and meet with owner to discuss access etc.

ok how many people want to land on scarba in the winter? but i've had my fill of "closed" islands over the years, and hoped that all this would change with the new access legislation.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

i emailed the owner who replied, stating that the pier was private, and we should stay out of his garden, and that we would not see the sign if we were not in those areas. but you can see it from the whole anchorage. he also suggested i could land anywhere else on the island. i asked him to take it down as per scottish access 2003 etc, but he repeatedly avoided the question.

Not familiar with that law maybe you would explain a bit.

 

[Spyro]

Much discussion here

http://www.bluemoment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6388

The offending sign

 

[Spyro]

Not familiar with that law maybe you would explain a bit.

AKA Right to Roam



In Scotland the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 comprehensively codified into Scots law the ancient tradition of the right to universal access to the land in Scotland. The act specifically establishes a right to be on land for recreational, educational and certain other purposes and a right to cross land. The rights exist only if they are exercised responsibly, as specified in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code.

Access rights apply to any non-motorised activities, including walking, cycling, horse-riding and wild camping. They also allow access on inland water for canoeing, rowing, sailing and swimming. The rights confirmed in the Scottish legislation are greater than the limited rights of access created in England and Wales by the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (CRoW).[14]

 

[Reverend Ludd]

AKA Right to Roam



In Scotland the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 comprehensively codified into Scots law the ancient tradition of the right to universal access to the land in Scotland. The act specifically establishes a right to be on land for recreational, educational and certain other purposes and a right to cross land. The rights exist only if they are exercised responsibly, as specified in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code.

Access rights apply to any non-motorised activities, including walking, cycling, horse-riding and wild camping. They also allow access on inland water for canoeing, rowing, sailing and swimming. The rights confirmed in the Scottish legislation are greater than the limited rights of access created in England and Wales by the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (CRoW).[14]

So I guess that means a no to using the guys pier?
What about the garden bit, surely he could expect a bit of privacy around his house?
I guess you can't walk across crops etc?

 

[ffiill]

Clearly owners understanding of Scottish Law is about as good as his understanding of English-you only have to look at that sign or the Web Site to see that.
Could you place Sanda-is it along the way past Corryvreckan-only sailed that way once from Crinan through to Loch Lhinne.
A bit like our new Danish Lord of the Manor who last year dumped 5000 pheasants in the Glen-passing motorists took out over 500 on the A82 and A887 and a friend ,one of the old guard Scottish Green Welly and Barbour Brigade applied her lawful rights and dispatched 20 or so trespassing on her property and fed her BandB guests on them.
Then there is the Glass Palace the Macarabs want to build near Eilean Donan Castle!
You have got me going!
Never has been a law of trespass in Scotland-to quote from the sign that used to hang on the chain link fence surrounding The Kishorn oil rig site back in 1970s"Trespassers will be indicted". In otherwords you will be served a court order to leave!

 

[Spyro]

So I guess that means a no to using the guys pier?
What about the garden bit, surely he could expect a bit of privacy around his house?
I guess you can't walk across crops etc?

What you see in the picture is not his house that was formerly the pub.
I don't think anyone would be wandering around his garden.
The way it looks is he is happy to have you there as long as you are a paying guest.

 

[bikedaft]

thanks for teh posts.

i think you can restrict access to a pier, tho would welcome clarification.

you have to stay out of gardens.

however (to me) it sounds like he is trying to keep you off the road that runs in front of the pub and his house. as eg farm yards are not off limits if you need to go through them to access land on the other side, doubt he should be able to do that. but his house is right on the road, so can see why he may want to.

its a big bay, plenty other beach to land at. but erroneous/intimidating signs are specifically mentioned under the act, ie not allowed.

the blue moment thread was last year, june/july. we stopped off at sanda early june, there was no sign then.

i read it as " island only open for residents" wonder if they've changed the spelling?

anyway, the access officer sounds helpful, we'll see what happens. will keep you posted, thanks.

if anyone else has seen the sign and it bothers you, please email the local council access officer on Jolyon.Gritten AT argyll-bute.gov.uk

 

[bikedaft]

What you see in the picture is not his house that was formerly the pub.
I don't think anyone would be wandering around his garden.

his house (i guess, its the only house) is off to the left of the pic, the other side of the "beer garden" from the pub. the publican and family were in accomodation behind and to the right of the pic.

last year i spoke with the publican, according to him the new owner bought the island, and wanted to not let anyone land. then found out about the scottish access legislation. oops. except it meant that he got to keep his job, so he was not displeased

 

[ffiill]

Of course now I remember-Mull of Kintyre-1968 Cream splits up and Jack Bruce buys Sanda!!
Light house turned into Band B or something?
Used to know the lighthouse keeper who kept a flat in Tarbet.

 

[awol]

Oi, where's ma credit fur ra fotie?

If the owner's house is the new one that was being built when I took the picture then there is no need to go anywhere near it. There seems to be confusing messages coming from Sanda - they've laid moorings, will sell beer when the restaurant is open, send emails saying yachties are welcome - and then there's the notice, the website and the reaction to the OP. Whatever is the reality it ain't ever going to be the Byron Danton again.

 

[bikedaft]

awol - thanks for the fotie! can i email a copy to the access officer please?

 

[awol]

Of course you can.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Well I guess time will tell - thanks for the updates.

 

[bikedaft]

thanks for the support - i always wonder if its just me taking it the wrong way etc.

to be fair to the guy he has tidied up all the farmyard clutter beside the house, and the lighthouse midden over by the lighthouse. and looks like they are sorting a water supply above the pub.

will let you know how the access officer gets on.

 

[Spyro]

Oi, where's ma credit fur ra fotie?

Sorry Awol, you're quite right, It was late at night and I never gave it enough thought.

Easier to seek forgiveness than permission

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

As you may have read from the link to BM forum and the relevent posts regarding sanda.
I emailed the new owner who, it would seem only wants paying or money spending folk on the island, let that be sailors using and paying for his moorings or buying drink from his pub or renting cottages etc.
As for his reply to the email, it was a lot of codswollap.
I did explain to him about the right to roam, or access laws but as far as I can make out he does not care.
I suggest that any or all of us who might or intend to sail to Sanda in the future should email this access officer and complain.
As for me I will be anchoring in the bay again, I will be landing at the pier again, I will be walking on the track past the pub again, and I will be climbing the hill beside the pub again, and I will be carrying a copy of the scottish laws on access just in case someone tries to stop me.
Furthermore, the owner had an advert on his website a while back for staff (chef etc) but stipulated that applicants must be german speaking! what does that tell you?
Like others who have posted here, I feel strongly about this and feel there should be a stop put to it, once and for all.
C_W

 

[Seajet]

Clyde Wanderer,

I can only hope to get to your area some time in the future, but you are doing great work in the meantime for all,

Well Done !

 

[NormanS]

There were similar notices on Drimnin estate, notably at Loch Drumbuie. I got in touch with the relevant Access Officer, and he sorted it with the estate. The notices are no more.

Outsiders buying chunks of our country still have to obey our laws.

 

[bikedaft]

thanks for the support/help/advice

must admit i get pretty grumpy about this sort of stuff

will let you know how the access officer gets on. seems pretty black and white to me, especially after reading the website. owner's email replies were smoke and mirrors...