Samauri Diesel

[ianphillips]

I've heard that the GM V8 is not good, but never any facts, only hearsay, typically from someone with a blunt axe! Had personal experience of Volvo's going bang, but never spoken to anyone with personal experience of the 6.5L Samauri convert.

Since it is one of the most popular truck diesels in the US I'm surprised they are so weak? I note Range Rovers sporting the GM V8 in this country are very much sought after, I believe mainly for power to weight ratio for towing, which if they are so poor, doesn't make sense.

Am considering buying a boat which is already converted, so I'd be be pleased to hear any facts, rather than rumours regarding these marine conversions.

 

[ccscott49]

There was a thread about this a few weeks ago, from memory, peeps said the marinising side was the problem, with apparently lots going bang! But I'd check that thread if I were you, don't know how to do it myself!!

 

[ianphillips]

Thanks.

I looked at the posts, but have also seen the posts re: Volvo. Unlike the Volvo, posts re: the GM V8 seem to be mainly hearsay expressed by just one or two people. Similar forums in the US do not appear to report such problems, so am trying to find out if this is down to the marinisation carried out in the uk and if so, whether the problem can be addressed locally. I could call Lancing, but suspect their axe is quite blunt!

I'm reluctant to shut the door on an apparent bargain, without trying to get some hard facts.

Thanks again.

 

[ccscott49]

I see your point, I know these engines and as you say, they are used for a multitude of different jobs and are reliable, the states would not put up with an unreliable unit, nor the oilfield, where they are also used, so something must be wrong with the UK scene, definitely worth investigating! Is there a specific boat these are fitted to? the owners club might be of some use, or whatever, last time, you are right, it seemed to be only a couple of people with opinions of the unit. I wonder!!

 

[ianphillips]

I'm turning up very little info on this set up in the UK - fullstop! As for an owners club, this engine is in a pretty ordinary production boat, which typically has the Volvo 205 petrol or similar. The present owner says they've had no trouble - but they would!! The boat's only on its second tank of fuel after being re-engined and sounds sweet enough, but who knows!!

 

[pistonbroke]

Chevy 6.2 & 6.5 V8 Diesels are excellent engines, when marinised correctly. Have had some experience with Samurai product, and they can be very good. I know of a couple of sportsboats with them installed, and they are very reliable, although the owners did buy just the motors from Samurai and marinised them thereselves. The same engine is available from sweden, www.marinediesel.nu These are probably the best version, and are far superior to say a Yanmar 300hp. Much cleaner running and no turbo lag.

 

[ianphillips]

This one was self-installed (6.5L 300HP), but how does one know whether it's been done properly? Is it the sort of thing a marine diesel engineer might be able to pick up on an engine survey?

Are spares easy to come by?

I assume you don't work for Samauri??!!

 

[pistonbroke]

Most of these engines are self installed, no more difficult than an engine from Merc or Volvo. The important part is the marinising, manifolds risers etc. At 300hp water flow is critical. Any decent marine engineer would be able to perform the necessary checks to insure the motor was ok.

There is a boat on the Hamble with a pair of these motors, 28' loa with a max speed of 73mph. Marinised and installed by the owner.

Regards,

Pistonbroke

PS: No, I dont work for Samurai, haven't even met him, although I have heard a few interesting tales!!!

 

[ccscott49]

What interesting tales, cummon' out with it, bring on the thumbscrews!! Rack the swine!!

 

[ianphillips]

I assume you have personal experience of these engines and from your comments it is the cooling system which is critical. I guess therefore an Exhaust Temp gauge might be advisable? I hope you don't mind me picking your brains, but judging by past postings on this subject this might be of interest to several others who use this forum.

How easy are they to service, all the ancillaries (filters etc) look pretty standard to me, but I'm no expert. I guess from your comments that any competent marine engineer will be able to maintain. The current owner is an engineer by trade and does his own servicing and says that although Samurai have good spares stocks, one could get most of them through any US Car specialist, of which there are dozens in the UK who offer most parts at much cheaper mailorder prices. I must admit that until I started to research this engine, I did not realise there was such a huge following in the UK for US built engines. You can probably guess I'm not a "Custom Car" enthusiast!!

Any info gladly received.

Regards
Ian

PS. Could those that contributed to this topic a few weeks ago, perhaps give some more background to their previous comments.

 

[Freebee]

If you check out some of the internet newsgroups on boats and boating you will see many references to the GM 6.2 d and can chat from US owners most that I have read show bad experiences rather than good but that maybe because bad experiences get more publicity that good. I suggest you pose the question on US boating forums and newsgroups.

 

[burgundyben]

Ian,

Have you looked on www.boatdiesel.com?

BB

......girls, girls, get back, please, one at a time......

 

[ianphillips]

I've already been on several such sites, boatdiesel.com requires payment of $25 before you get anything useful from their forums! I have posted on a couple of US Newsgroups and it seems that in the US, GM is similar to Ford in the UK, sold under various guises much like Mermaid & Sabre over here. Clearly there is nothing wrong with the engine, in fact it's generally very highly regarded - it is the marine application which is sometime brought into question, much like some of the dodgy DIY Ford conversions we all hear about. I'll report back with anything of interest from the US postings.

My feeling so far is that if the marinisation can be proven to be sound, then the engine will probably be fine, but I am yet to be convinced of this sufficiently to part with any £notes! I am going to speak to a couple of marine engineers tomorrow to see what they have to say on the subject. One of them apparently knows the boat I am thinking of buying as he has done some work on the leg.

Many thanks
Ian.

 

[ianphillips]

Already posted to a couple of US forums, most sing praises of the GM 6.5 itself, even referring me websites dedicated to the engines. These engines have an almost cult following in the US, it is a "chevy" afterall! It would seem there is nothing whatsoever wrong with the engine itself, just the marinisation in some cases, just like some Ford DIY conversions. Nevertheless I am reserving my judgement, pending an engine survey.

Many thanks
Ian

 

[Freebee]

Just remember that most Gm 6.2 available here are dud engines removed from the US ,military vehicle fleet and are therefore in need of some sort of repair.

Longevity of the engine will then depend on who and how it is repairer dont forget samurai will supply worn engines for you to repair yourself. Therefore double check who did what to your engine.

I have driven a chevy blazer with this engine and was just bowled over by the available grunt and modest rpm.

 

[ianphillips]

The boat has the 6.5L V8 installed, not the 6.2L, which according to the current owner was brand new when he installed it in 2000. When I looked at the posts on this forum made a few weeks ago on this subject I was puzzled at the comments regarding the engine's performance as according to my research power to weight ratio, paricularly for the 300 turbo is extremely good, which appears to be supported by your experience of driving the chevy. Whilst I'm no expert there do appear to be problems with some of these conversions, which not only relate to water flow/cooling. I am now informed that some of these engines were installed in boats with their original fuel pumps which were electronic. These were apparently very troublesome and not at all well suited to marine evironments. However, it seems that most if not all more recent 6.5L engines have been supplied with replacement mechanical pumps, designed for marine applications, which resolved this problem.

It is a shame that what appears to be a perfectly good engine, in fact ideal for repowering in almost all respects has got such a bad reputation. At the moment I am inclined to walk away from this boat, not so much for my fears for the engine's reliability, but more for the hassle I would be likely to get when/if I ever decided to sell it! I guess this is why the boat is so cheap, but alas not cheap enough for me to consider it a consumable item, to just write-off over a year or so, otherwise I'd jump at it!

I'm going to speak to a couple of local marine engineers I know today and see what they have to say and will probably sleep on it for a few nights before making a final decision.

Thanks everyone for your input so far.

All best
Ian.

 

[tr7v8]

Since I have a brother who is a Rangey R fanatic, speaking to him transplanted into a RR they are reliable. The main issue ois dealing with the torque as a RR bellhousing can't take a big enough clutch too handle it!

Jim
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[ianphillips]

It's clear there's nothing wrong with the engine, it's just the marine conversion which seems questionable. The boat I'm looking at has had the gearbox changed in the leg to match increased power/lower revs, so uses the same size prop etc., rather than having a massive prop.

 

[pistonbroke]

Yes, I do have personal experience of these engines, and they are normally very reliable. Although they are a bit thin on the ground as a marine engine in this country, most people would know the type of vehicle that they originate from.

Chevy Blazers, Hummers etc are the two most common, but there are numerous others. I am reliably informed that a lot of the Samurai engines originate from the US military, perhaps yours has seen active service in the Gulf War. The motors are usually bought in bulk from the States, on a take it as you find it kind of deal, this is why they are available as new or reconditioned.

300 hp is difficult but not impossible to achieve, as most of these engines were built as workhorses, the normal power output is much less, 170-200hp so I would check to see that this is a genuine 300hp motor.

Service items such as filters are available from any American car parts specialist, and raw water pumps, engine mounts and other such none car parts are the same as a Mercruiser or Volvo 5.7L & 7.4L petrol engines. ( Bolt patterns for mounts, bellhousings etc are identical)

The difficult bit is the marinising parts. sierrra-marine.com & aqua-power.com are two companies that we have used in the past, you can purchase direct or use keypart.com in Watford. Most people tend to use Barr or Osco manifolds and risers, and I believe these are also available from keypart.

To obtain 300hp you need an intercooler and turbo, and these are the tricky bits. Getting it all to fit in a neat and tidy fashion is also very difficult, a lot of the installations that I have seen have tended to be very agricultural. Normally because the pipe work is difficult to get looking right.

It may be possible to get an owner to contact you direct, I'll see what I can do.

Regards,

Pistonbroke

 

[pistonbroke]

Me again,

Yes, at times these engines do get a bad report form the States, but you must remember that the yanks are in general petrol heads. Because of the cheap cost of petrol out there, most cruisers up to about 34 foot tend to be fitted with petrols. To an American, a diesel engine is built by caterpillar or detroit diesel. I have often spoken to boat builders in the states about why the chevy diesel isn't used and they all say the same. "Because you can't buy it as a package". The main supplier in the states for this motor is www.peninsular-diesels.com. There main market for it is in re-powering. I believe there is a dealer for them in this country, I think he exhibited one at the Southampton boat show a couple of years ago. He may be called Liss or something similar.

Out of interest what drive is fitted to the boat that you are interested in?