Salvage

[Badger]

When my gearbox packed up off Chichester entrance I took a tow from a guy with a rib based in Hayling Island. He was a very nice chap and refused any offer of financial reward. When I told people the story they said I had been foolhardy because of salvage rights,what did they mean ?

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

I think you are ok if you pass your line to the other boat. I suppose if you were about to be smashed to bits on the rocks or sea wall then a Salvage claim would be possible, but that was not the case was it.
You offered payment which was refused but no doubt your thanks were accepted.

We have a pre agreement in our club to put out a call on CH 72 for help from other club members who may be in the area.

Anyway alls well that ends well. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Trevor

 

[Guest]

The RYA have all the answers to this. If you join you will have access to the legal datbase like I have. I know and you don't /forums/images/icons/wink.gif BUT if you joined you would know, could save your boat from a claim. Have a go on the site and see how far you can blag your way in without paying, you may be lucky. www.rya.org.uk then type salvage in the search box. All members get access to the secret pages. I'm not typing it all out here after paying to join, to save you a few bob /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<font color=red>"You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"<font color=red>

 

[Stingo]

Hey Grumpy, after all the free advise that's been donated to you on this forum, that's not a very grateful attitude!!!

p.s. you need to stick a "/" at the end of your "red" command just between the [ and the word red. Then "Post Extras" won't appear in red.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.stingo.co.uk>http://www.stingo.co.uk</A> - now showing at a computer near you

 

[Guest]

Stingo, (I'm on commission /forums/images/icons/wink.gif from the RYA, I have twenty bags now /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif)

That bit at the bottom is meant to be in red, Haydn told me to change it!!

<font color=red>"You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"<font color=red>

 

[Stingo]

If I'd known that, I would have charged you more for the TV!

Now what's the answer to the original question (I am a member of the RYA but couldn't be arsed searching through pages of legal babble).

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.stingo.co.uk>http://www.stingo.co.uk</A> <font color=red>- now showing at a computer near you</font color=red>

 

[Guest]

The real truth is I found it, but it is PDF format and I couldn't copy it for the poor fellow. You have to register and go in to view it, you can't even save it.

<font color=red>"You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"<font color=red>

 

[Guest]

The real truth is I found it, but it is PDF format and I couldn't copy it for the poor fellow. You have to register and go in to view it, you can't even save it.

<font color=red>"You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"<font color=red>

 

[Stingo]

Grumpy

Do you always repeat yourself?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.stingo.co.uk>http://www.stingo.co.uk</A> <font color=blue>- now showing at a computer near you</font color=blue>

 

[Guest]

Ooops, i was too busy watching TV /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<font color=red>"You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"<font color=red>

 

[peterb]

The RYA do a very good booklet called "The Yachtsman's Lawyer". Chapter 6 has 8 pages of information relating to salvage. And you don't need to be a member to buy it.

 

[lauradee]

why not answer the question simply?

you get to lose your boat in the worst case scenario to pay for the salvage claim !!!!
stu

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: why not answer the question simply?

Anyone who thinks about claiming salvage off another vessel to whom they give aid should remember karma, if I ever find any of you in need of a tow or some help, buy me a packet of fags or something and be prepared to help someone else if they need it.

I hate it when ever salvage rears its ugly head.

<font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[AndrewB]

Salvage and towage.

I'm NOT quoting from the RYA website, but from memory (and here you get what you pay for).

There is always a risk that a salvage claim could be lodged against you if you ask for and accept a tow, where there is no towage contract. A witnessed offer/acceptance of money for a tow may therefore be more reassuring than "a very nice chap who refused any offer of financial reward".

One problem though is that under a towage contract responsibility for both boats falls to the tower, which naturally insurers dislike, so many insurance companies forbid yachts from towing for reward.

However, to claim salvage from towage, the situation must involve genuine danger. It is up to the tower to prove that - almost certainly out of the question if you were simply waiting at the entrance to a harbour in moderate weather, not at risk of going aground, with anchoring and sailing as options; and the tower gave no advance indication of his intention to claim salvage.

The old saw about the towed yacht using its own rope is supposed to provide evidence that the crew were capable, but really is something of a myth.

Tows between yachts occur all the time as a matter of courtesy, and I can't recall one under these circumstances resulting in a salvage claim. But if you have doubts an option is to contact a local marina or even the CG who can often put you in touch with a local towage operator. Or join <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.seastart.co.uk/>Seastart</A>.

 

[chriscallender]

To try to answer the question that has been asked, if I remember correctly the whole tow rope thing is to an extent an urban myth.

What the person doing the salvage needs to prove is that without their actions your boat would have been damaged/destroyed. So if you were anchored up in calm weather in the entrance to Chichester fixing your gearbox when Mr RIB arrived and offered a tow, he could not claim salvage even if his rope was used. If you were being swept onto a rock strewn lee shore in a force 10 then he could claim even if you passed him a rope.

I understand that the salvage fee will usually be negociated/agreed between your insurers and the salvagor and will be some percentage of the boats value, less than 100% and scaled according to the danger you were in. The thinking being I guess that it is better for the insurers to pay 10% of the total loss value for someone to rescue you than 100% if the rescuer leaves you drifting onto rocks.

Anyway, thats my understanding of how it works, I'm not an RYA member with access to that PDF document so what I've said may not be 100% accurate ;-)

Anyway, to answer the original question, I don't think you were foolhardy to accept a tow, because if you were not in great danger he could not claim any salvage right. If you were in great danger, then you would have been foolhardy not to accept a tow. Maybe there is a grey area between these two extremes though.

I think/hope that 99% of leisure mariners help others because they are not in a rush so have time to do it without large reward, and know that one day they might be in need of a tow themselves. No surprise that he wouldn't take any financial reward for his troubles, if you see him broken down in the entrance to Chichester he knows that he has a free tow now. Which is the way it should be anyway.

Chris

 

[Guest]

What's the view on a rib offering to help push you (a raggie)out of the mud and back into the channel? No tow rope involved. Have had this happen TWICE while trying to negotiate the Wych Channel around the top of Brownsea Island to anchor at Pottery Pier - btw this is not my normal stomping ground.

 

[chriscallender]

Well, as I say I'm not an expert on any of this but there would be no chance of any significant damage if the RIB left you and you dried out in the mud. You'd have got off somehow another way - even if that meant waiting 2 weeks on the next Spring tide or whatever... maybe inconvenient but salvage is not about convienience it is about stopping physical damage.

So no way this could win a salvage claim however the RIB moved you. He could agree a pushing fee with you in advance if he wanted to.

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

Whats all this about pushing, abuse we have a plenty but its now degenerated into pushing. We will be exchanging blows next and before you know it its all out war.

Seriously when push comes to shove, its hardly salvage is it. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

With reference to your post whats the saying Once bitten twice shy.

Am I right that the RYA stands for the Royal Yachting Association. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Trevor