salvage claim

[benlui]

Just after midnight, A 56ft yacht with engine failure who called ahead by telephone to the port of Naxos in Greece in advance of her arrival for assistance into the marina. The harbour Master, a friend/acquaintance of the professional skipper on board the yacht, arranged for a local to take him out to help the yacht. After 40min the boat was safely aside. Shortly after the owner of the rescue boat was claiming salvage amount 2000EUR from the skipper. In the end, a lesser fee was agreed by both parties and paid.

I'm not sure who passed the tow line, but as the yacht was not in any kind danger and no emergency was raised, can this guy actually claim this salvage?
I know a lot depends on who passed the line, but in this case in a non emergency can it also be a salvage case?

I wonder if the skipper asked for a receipt! cough cough

 

[nimbusgb]

Should have agreed the terms before accepting the tow!

We towed someone up the Levkas channel after their engine quit. We didn't claim anything but a thank you, round of drinks or something would have been appreciated!

 

[RichardS]

Just after midnight, A 56ft yacht with engine failure who called ahead by telephone to the port of Naxos in Greece in advance of her arrival for assistance into the marina. The harbour Master, a friend/acquaintance of the professional skipper on board the yacht, arranged for a local to take him out to help the yacht. After 40min the boat was safely aside. Shortly after the owner of the rescue boat was claiming salvage amount 2000EUR from the skipper. In the end, a lesser fee was agreed by both parties and paid.

I'm not sure who passed the tow line, but as the yacht was not in any kind danger and no emergency was raised, can this guy actually claim this salvage?
I know a lot depends on who passed the line, but in this case in a non emergency can it also be a salvage case?

I wonder if the skipper asked for a receipt! cough cough

I'm sure I've read that the "who passed the tow line" thing is a myth and is very unlikely to have any bearing on whether salvage fees can be claimed.

As I understand it, the defintion of "emergency" is in the mind of the Skipper making the call. If you ask for a tow, then you have defined the situation as one requiring assistance and salvage can be claimed by the attending vessel.

Richard

 

[nigel1]

Would not consider the service to be salvage in the proper sense of the word.
From the International Convention of Salvage 1989:
(a) "Salvage operation" means any act or activity undertaken to assist a vessel or any other property in danger in navigable waters or in any other waters whatsoever.

The salvage award depends on many factors such as the

1) the value of the vessel and its contents after the salvage is complete
2) the salvor's skill and initiative in minimizing damage to the environment
3) the degree of success obtained by the salvor
4) the level of peril to which the salvaged vessel was subject
5) the salvor's skill and initiative in saving the vessel, human lives, and other property
6) the salvor's labor and expenses

Sounds to me that in this case, it was a straight forward towing arrangement.
If the owner/skipper of the boat wants to challange the amount paid, he'll probably have to go to the expense of a court case, which is not going the cost/hassle.

7) the amount of risk run by the salvor
8) the promptness of the services rendered
9) the availability and use of any alternative salvage resources
10) the readiness, efficiency, and value of the salvor's vessel and equipment.

 

[Boo2]

I'm not sure who passed the tow line

Apologies for the slight thread drift but can someone please explain this to me and/or point me to web references ?

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[Oldhairy]

Was this perchance a little arrangement between friends?

 

[pmagowan]

Just an old sailing myth. The only importance of lines is whoever gets the first line on the boat being salvaged has more rights in the claim. It does not matter if you accept a rope or offer one to the rescuing boat, with regards to salvage. All you need to do to avoid a salvage claim is to confirm that you are accepting a commercial tow. In any event, if there is a dispute then the costs, including legal costs, will fall to the loser and since possesion is 9/10 of the law you can simply sail away on your boat and tell the claimant to sue.

Apologies for the slight thread drift but can someone please explain this to me and/or point me to web references ?

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[JVL]

He asked for a tow and got one perhaps the "salvage claim" was just a method of extracting an expedited payment!


John

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just an old sailing myth. The only importance of lines is whoever gets the first line on the boat being salvaged has more rights in the claim. It does not matter if you accept a rope or offer one to the rescuing boat, with regards to salvage. All you need to do to avoid a salvage claim is to confirm that you are accepting a commercial tow. In any event, if there is a dispute then the costs, including legal costs, will fall to the loser and since possesion is 9/10 of the law you can simply sail away on your boat and tell the claimant to sue.

Isn't there something about boats which call for help in Greece requiring a survey and permission to leave port again?

 

[GrahamM376]

According to RYA publication "The Yachtsman's Lawyer", there are lots of principles governing a claim. Some of these are -

Service must be voluntary and not under pre-arranged contract; Must be in tidal waters, not harbour area; The vessel involved or someone on it must be in real danger.

Small boat owners should realise that it can be salvage to set in motion the steps to bring help to a boat or (just possibly) coming alongside and giving advice or information, which would enable it to avoid a local danger. It has been held a valid salvage service to supply tackle to a vessel in need of it, hence the advice to use one's own warps

If my understanding is correct, it appears that anyone needing a tow should agree the terms (make a contract) before being towed, to avoid a salvage claim.

This RYA publication is well worth buying as it covers many legal areas of concern to boat owners. (my copy is old, the 1993 revision ISBN 0-901501-43-3 and there may be a later updated one)

 

[GrahamM376]

Isn't there something about boats which call for help in Greece requiring a survey and permission to leave port again?

Don't know about Greece but in Portugal, any boat which has had problems or run aground can be impounded and required to be surveyed by the authorities. When we were hit on the mooring, it knocked our bow nav light off so we got impounded and 2 surveys - one after the event and another when I had fixed the light.

 

[pmagowan]

Yes, I heard about that but I think it is an official thing if you call mayday or pan pan. If you simply hire a tow then it is just a transaction.

Isn't there something about boats which call for help in Greece requiring a survey and permission to leave port again?

 

[prv]

If my understanding is correct, it appears that anyone needing a tow should agree the terms (make a contract) before being towed, to avoid a salvage claim.

My understanding is that you should always agree a price for any towing / salvage / potentially salvage work, before accepting it, if possible. The salvage award process is to cover the case where things were so urgent, or so confused, that it wasn't possible to arrange the commercial aspects at the time.

There is a bit of a loophole though in the case of casual tows, especially between leisure vessels, where it seems impolite to bring up money at a moment when someone is kindly helping you.

Pete

 

[Hadenough]

There is a bit of a loophole though in the case of casual tows, especially between leisure vessels, where it seems impolite to bring up money at a moment when someone is kindly helping you.

Pete

Agreed. Happily I have not yet been in this situation but my rule to myself has always been that if I am offered assistance by a commercial vessel I am at risk of an salvage claim so should therefore agree terms. If by a leisure vessel hopefully reasonable assistance would be offered FOC and rewarded in an appropriate manner. I have assisted several vessels over the years and have always made it clear to the other skipper, in advance, that I did not expect payment.

 

[KevB]

According to RYA publication "The Yachtsman's Lawyer", there are lots of principles governing a claim. Some of these are -

Service must be voluntary and not under pre-arranged contract; Must be in tidal waters, not harbour area; The vessel involved or someone on it must be in real danger.

Small boat owners should realise that it can be salvage to set in motion the steps to bring help to a boat or (just possibly) coming alongside and giving advice or information, which would enable it to avoid a local danger. It has been held a valid salvage service to supply tackle to a vessel in need of it, hence the advice to use one's own warps

If my understanding is correct, it appears that anyone needing a tow should agree the terms (make a contract) before being towed, to avoid a salvage claim.

This RYA publication is well worth buying as it covers many legal areas of concern to boat owners. (my copy is old, the 1993 revision ISBN 0-901501-43-3 and there may be a later updated one)

I wonder (hope) there is a clause in Sea Starts contract saying they won't claim salvage...

 

[pmagowan]

I think the RNLI crew are allowed to claim salvage but they would have to refund the costs of the boat and launch etc.

I wonder (hope) there is a clause in Sea Starts contract saying they won't claim salvage...

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

My first thoughts were "beware of Greeks bearing gifts", but then I thought ; wasn't this a professional skipper, with presumably a professional crew, who should, one would think, have the ability/wit to anchor in a sheltered spot and sort out the engine, or wait until daylight to enter the port and come alongside a fuel berth or similar, under sail.

 

[prv]

I think the RNLI crew are allowed to claim salvage but they would have to refund the costs of the boat and launch etc.

I believe that used to be the case, but for the past couple of decades all the volunteers have been required to sign a form agreeing that they will not claim salvage when engaged in any RNLI activity.

Pete

 

[AntarcticPilot]

According to RYA publication "The Yachtsman's Lawyer", there are lots of principles governing a claim. Some of these are -

Service must be voluntary and not under pre-arranged contract; Must be in tidal waters, not harbour area; The vessel involved or someone on it must be in real danger.

Small boat owners should realise that it can be salvage to set in motion the steps to bring help to a boat or (just possibly) coming alongside and giving advice or information, which would enable it to avoid a local danger. It has been held a valid salvage service to supply tackle to a vessel in need of it, hence the advice to use one's own warps

If my understanding is correct, it appears that anyone needing a tow should agree the terms (make a contract) before being towed, to avoid a salvage claim.

This RYA publication is well worth buying as it covers many legal areas of concern to boat owners. (my copy is old, the 1993 revision ISBN 0-901501-43-3 and there may be a later updated one)

In Scottish waters (I would have said UK, but it may be that Scottish law is different), I have heard situations where the Coastguard has put out an all stations call for assistance in some circumstances - once a boat that needed a tow, another time, a boat that needed assistance from a diver to remove net or rope in the propellers. In both cases, once a third party had taken up the request, the Coastguard signed off by stating very clearly that it was up to the two boats concerned to reach agreement concerning costs etc. Presumably this is in line with the RYA advice above.

 

[prv]

In Scottish waters (I would have said UK, but it may be that Scottish law is different), I have heard situations where the Coastguard has put out an all stations call for assistance in some circumstances - once a boat that needed a tow, another time, a boat that needed assistance from a diver to remove net or rope in the propellers. In both cases, once a third party had taken up the request, the Coastguard signed off by stating very clearly that it was up to the two boats concerned to reach agreement concerning costs etc. Presumably this is in line with the RYA advice above.

They sometimes put out similar calls down here, where someone just needs a tow rather than a proper rescue. I've never heard them make any comment about potential costs - must be that famous Scottish parsimony

Pete