Sails out of helm man reach

[JumbleDuck]

While my boat is not ' narrow and tunnel like ' I'd like to know why an aft cabin is a benefit to helming, they usually result in a shallow cockpit and more a feeling of being on stage with Led Zep' than being secure in a seaboat !

You haven't been reading the adverts properly. Modern boats are always sailed bolt upright across smooth seas with a smiling chap in linen shirt and calf-length trousers standing confidently behind one of the wheels while a bronzed bimbo in bikini lounges on the cabin roof.

Any bronzed bimbo in a bikini who lounges on my cabin roof will get thrown a J-cloth and told to clean something. This may, of course, explain why I sail single-handed a lot.

 

[Bav34]

Trundling along with sails reduced and sheets out of reach is not what it's supposed to be about, unless one's on a motorsailor just trying to save fuel ?

Well we only managed to 'trundle' just short of 800 miles this year.

Home port in Brittany to the Channel Islands, Chausey, Minqiuers, Plouer and eventually round to The Morbihan and back.

No night passages (some silly-o'clock dark starts), reefed where necessary in the predominant north westerlies.

Used 25 litres of diesel !

Admittedly an exceptional year for wind ... most tacks I remember were Roscoff to Perros going south of all the rocks ... but trundling?

I think not.

P.s. Just to flesh that figure out ... our average fuel usage each year over 8 years of monitoring has been 2.5 miles a litre.

 

[onesea]

So how can actually people single handle these boats if you need to leave the helm (or helms) completely to adjust any of the sails?

I think the answer seems to be the Auto Pilot steers.

I always figured when cruising set sail to the gusts, when Racing you set your sails to the lulls.

Although most of us probably sail some where in the middle...

 

[Bav34]

I think the answer seems to be the Auto Pilot steers.

I always figured when cruising set sail to the gusts, when Racing you set your sails to the lulls.

Although most of us probably sail some where in the middle...

Totally agree with that.

When passage making I really don't want to be sitting there just holding a wheel for the sake of it.

I have a 3 x rule ... which I normally extend to 4 under the glare from Mrs Bav

If the Autohelm can't hold the boat on course 3 times because of the gusts we reef. And seem to go just as fast.

Saying that, one of the most pleasurable sails we had was 52 miles, Perros to Guernsey, sailed door to door chasing the tell-tales the whole way.

JUST laid St Martins point and glided up to SPP entrance.

Four boats behind us who were probably in a more relaxed vein had to tack out and ended up motoring.

52 miles of fun!

Sorry.

Trundling.

 

[TQA]

I single hand my 44ft cutter a fair bit. The mainsheet and staysail winches are on the cabin roof at the front of the large cockpit. The genoa winches are about half way back.

Normally I use the autopilot to hold course while I go and play with the string. But I have experimented and I can tack and adjust things by locking the steering and she holds course for a little while allowing me to make adjustments.

Tacking the big genoa round the front of the staysail is a pain so if I know I am going to be tacking I usually sail with just the staysail and main.

Re automatic docking that was mentioned earlier don't Beneteau have such a system available as an option. Maybe on their sense range. I remember seeing a video of one stopping in a narrow channel and moving sideways into a space just long enough. maybe called 'Dock and Go' ?

 

[Tranona]

While my boat is not ' narrow and tunnel like ' I'd like to know why an aft cabin is a benefit to helming, they usually result in a shallow cockpit and more a feeling of being on stage with Led Zep' than being secure in a seaboat !

Where has anybody said an aft cabin is a "benefit to helming"? Or did you just make that nonsense up?

For those who are blessed with being able to use their boat with a family aft cabins - indeed any cabin dedicated solely to sleeping - is a benefit.

 

[rotrax]

Others have answered your question, but my 2p's worth follows their logic.
If you have an autopilot use it.
If you dont, and you are sailing singlehanded, be conservative with your sail.
Otherwise, leave the helm and slip the main.
We have a long wide cockpit-about ten feet long. Mainsheet winch and clutch on the coachroof under the sprayhood.
When first mate-who is IC steering most of the time-says "slip the main a bit" I so do.
We have the advantage of a stiff boat that carries sail well, and is not too fussy about sail trim to the "nth" degree.
I do miss the tiller and cockpit mounted mainsheet track in our previous boat, but not the mainsheet wizzing across the cockpit, especialy with guests on board.
We will keep what we now have and sail on regardless.

 

[cmedsailor]

You haven't been reading the adverts properly. Modern boats are always sailed bolt upright across smooth seas with a smiling chap in linen shirt and calf-length trousers standing confidently behind one of the wheels while a bronzed bimbo in bikini lounges on the cabin roof.

Any bronzed bimbo in a bikini who lounges on my cabin roof will get thrown a J-cloth and told to clean something. This may, of course, explain why I sail single-handed a lot.

Hmmm, it seems then that I am not doing something correct because with my modern boat (I think it is modern; don't know) I made some 150+ miles non-stop passages from calm sea to very nasty Med short swell both upwind and downwind, from 0 knots to 30 knots and from no waves to around 3-4 meters of waves. I was not wearing a linen shirt (but a life vest and harness instead), neither my wife was on the cabin roof.

PS: I wouldn't like to be in the middle of a gale though

 

[johnalison]

The problem is not whether it is possible to sail a boat without the helmsman being able to reach the sheets but whether it is desirable to do so.. My answer would be that it is safe so long as the boat is never sailed at close quarters to another boat sailing or any fixed object such as a moored craft. Almost the whole time, I sail with jib and main sheets cleated but there are occasions when I uncleat the main and keep the sheet in my hand while passing something in fresh conditions, and my HR is somewhat less prone to rounding up in gusts than many. It's a bit like covering the brake pedal when driving near a hazard and just my automatic response. If I were to buy my friend's Hanse, I don't think I could manage without moving the mainsheet into the cockpit. It is easy enough to move the sheet out to the rail when in harbour.

 

[TimH]

Interesting discussion. You can sail these bigger boats, with coach roof main sheet, and foresail winches well forward of the helm, safely single handed....you just need to sail a bit more conservatively. However you do need a good autopilot.....it also helps if it is one that can tack or gybe.
Now parking or mooring a bigger boat single handed is a challenge.

 

[flaming]

The problem is not whether it is possible to sail a boat without the helmsman being able to reach the sheets but whether it is desirable to do so..

Quite apart from the safety considerations, there are a good many people (like me) who are tweakers. (Not twerkers, that's something else...)

Sailing upwind without the mainsheet and traveler to hand simply lessens my enjoyment of the sailing. If I had to keep turning on the auto pilot and leaping to the front of the cockpit to trim the sails I'd swiftly get frustrated, and so would the members of my family who regard being at sea as a good time to relax and read a book when I kept jumping over them!
But as the cruising boat has the main (and the fine tune that I retrofitted) in the cockpit, and the jib winches within easy reach of the helm I can tweak away to my heart's content whilst the passengers enjoy the day in their way.

Fully accept not all are like me, but that's the reason I'd never buy a boat without the mainsheet and traveler in easy reach of the helm.

 

[maby]

Do bear in mind also that this discussion is focussing on large boats that are inherently less frisky than smaller ones anyway. We haven't got the autopilot installed on ours yet, but I can single hand her in moderate conditions provided the wind is not too variable. With the sails trimmed well and not over-canvassed, it will hold its course for a remarkably long time after I release the wheel - certainly long enough to nip forwards and trim a sheet.

All our winches are in the cockpit, but that does not make it any easier to single hand - the cockpit is large enough to play tennis in (ok, not quite, but it is very large) - it's a long walk from one genoa winch to the other - and I need binoculars to see the mainsheet winch!

 

[johnalison]

Do bear in mind also that this discussion is focussing on large boats that are inherently less frisky than smaller ones anyway.

Possibly, up to a point. The smaller Bavs have this system, as does the otherwise excellent Sadler 290.

 

[npf1]

Tacking the big genoa round the front of the staysail is a pain

FWIW, I fitted some plastic rollers on my staysail forestay over the summer and it's significantly helped this problem.

 

[TQA]

FWIW, I fitted some plastic rollers on my staysail forestay over the summer and it's significantly helped this problem.

Can you explain how you fitted them. I have a hank on staysail.

 

[[3889]]

It must be difficult trimming the spinnaker while single-handed using coachroof mounted winches - maybe that's a reason not to give way to other boats?

That's why I roll the genny and use the primaries - as I say, you ain't going to sail like a fully crewed racer. You may also be aghast to learn that I only have one coachroof winch - and yet the boat is still sailable

 

[npf1]

Can you explain how you fitted them. I have a hank on staysail.

I've also a hanked on staysail. I used 8 of something like these http://www.forespar.com/products/sail-savers.shtml that fit on without removing the stay. Bought at Baseline for IIRC £40 for the lot.

Before fitting i drilled then to 10mm. A later mod was a couple of inches of pvc water pipe either side of each one to provide a bit of separation from the hanks. I can get a picture next time i'm at the boat if that would help.

 

[Simondjuk]

I've never found it a problem. I generally prefer to head up in the gusts than continually ease and re-trim the main anyway. If it's really gusty, and heading up might not be enough, I take two turns on the coachroof mounted mainsheet winch, another on the unused primary and self-tail the sheet there so it's within arms reach if an ease is required. Ok, it's a slightly unfair, downward lead onto the primary, but it's seeing virtually no load anyway. When tacking, the mainsheet gets loaded back onto its own winch.

Unless someone switched on actually has the mainsheet in hand and ready to ease, ferocious, shifting gusts are likely to have the majority boats on their way to rounding up before the sheet can be reached, uncleated or tailed, and eased anyway. If this isn't the case, why on a gusty day does one almost invariably see at least one occasion of a fully crewed race boat being pushed on her ear and making a rapid 90 degree turn to wind, usually amidst shouts of, 'Ease the main! Ease the @#?%§¥€ main!'

 

[TQA]

I've also a hanked on staysail. I used 8 of something like these http://www.forespar.com/products/sail-savers.shtml that fit on without removing the stay. Bought at Baseline for IIRC £40 for the lot.

Before fitting i drilled then to 10mm. A later mod was a couple of inches of pvc water pipe either side of each one to provide a bit of separation from the hanks. I can get a picture next time i'm at the boat if that would help.

OK I thought it had to be something like that. My initial thought would be that they would interfere with the luff of the staysail. Long piston hanks might work.

 

[prv]

Unless someone switched on actually has the mainsheet in hand and ready to ease, ferocious, shifting gusts are likely to have the majority boats on their way to rounding up before the sheet can be reached, uncleated or tailed, and eased anyway.

Yep - and when conditions warrant, I am that person . When the boat is well heeled there's a nice perch up to windward of the helmsman, sitting on the side of the aft cabin with thighs gripping the lazy sheet winch like a saddle. The mainsheet leads up there and is easy to drop out of the jammer or re-trim.

Pete