Sails and Sprayhood Material

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richardbrennan

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Went to SBS yesterday and got some quotes for a new genoa and sprayhood.

One of the more competitive quotes for the genoa was from Elvstrom; does anybody have experience of their sails, particularly the cruising laminates. Also, does anybody have any experience with the fairly new NPC Radian sailcloth from North Sails? It is claimed to have the stretch resistance of a laminate and the durability of Dacron.

I was advised that the new bees knees for sprayhoods is a material called "Weathermax", is there any experience of this product out there? It looks good on the web.

The show itself was quite quiet for the first Saturday. It seems smaller than usual with virtually everything now crammed into one marquee, which is a bit of a rabbit warren!

One thing that hasn't changed is the catering which remains pretty diabolical!
 
As ever, you will get conflicting claims about what is "best" - not helped by manufacturers offering differing qualities. Sunbrella is undoubtedly the market leader. Probably the best maker of sprayhoods is Tec Sew in Gosport and they use Sunbrella. Very pleased with all the canvas work they made for me, all custom made with the features I wanted after discussion about what is possible.

You will find much the same with sailmakers and sailcloth - there are few bad sailmakers or bad cloth, but Elvstrom do make a lot of very cheap poor quality sails for production builders. Best to deal with a sailmaker who measure you boat, discusses the alternatives and makes to suit your requirements.

Really no different from buying washing machines. Just in the process of doing that and there is a bewildering variety of models on the market and each salesman you talk to (even in the same store) makes a different recommendation of the "best"!
 
richardbrennan said:
Also, does anybody have any experience with the fairly new NPC Radian sailcloth from North Sails? It is claimed to have the stretch resistance of a laminate and the durability of Dacron.
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I have fairly new sails made from this cloth (assuming you mean NorDac Radian), roller genoa from 2012 and main sail from 2014. Both triradial construction, as the whole point is combining this with polyester cloth.
So far, so good, but time will tell.
My reasoning for choosing this cloth is that I hope the sails will get a longer working life than a cruising laminate would have, while keeping their shape for longer, compared to ordinary cross cut. This is based on that I intend to keep my boat for a long time.
Hydranet could be an alternative, but I think that would be more expensive and also heavier.
 
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For bimini and dodger material I would recommend Stamoid. This is a vinyl polyester material that is easier to clean and has better UV resistance than Sumbrella. It is also totally waterproof. My Bimini and Dodger were both made of white Stamoid and lasted 9 years in the Caribbean. I had to have the dodger replaced with Sumbrella but was able to get Stamoid for the Bimini. The dodger is already looking stained and tired while the Stamoid Bimini comes up like new.

Don't know about sailcloth.
 
Plus 1 for Tecsew - clearly depends on Your location but have found them most helpful and easier to deal with than other south coast based makers of sprayhoods etc. They made us an excellent Bimini tent earlier this year and I was impressed by attention to detail. Also have a good website. Would certainly be happy to use again and they have good feedback from brokers who use them regularly
In terms of a Genoa we replaced our elvstrom with one from Sanders in Lymington but it all turns on personal needs and budget but I would just find a sailmaker who you can talk to locally having looked at what other similar vessels have by reading adverts or class forum maybe.
 
Whoever you choose for the sprayhood, try and get them to use PTFE thread ? - I think it's called Tenara, the stitching usually is the first to go. It's expensive but well worth the cost.
 
Surprised Elvstrøm could compete on price. I asked for quotes for a new 40 m² Genoa last year and even after much negotiation they were rather at the top of the price ranges. I kept asking to explain this, but the guy just wriggled and couldn't. I like to think I gave him something to think about! ;-)

My old Genoa was an Elvstrøm laminate (from 2001), which lasted 15 years, but not well. Panels were replaced and the laminate was in a very poor state indeed, with the outer layer crumbling off and the scrim sticking out. Apart from one Atlantic circuit I don't think it's done all that much sailing.

Beware of sailmakers selling you their house brand/exclusive sailcloth with claims of divinity - it is usually made by the lowest bidder, which changes often, so you will not get whatever the previous guy got sold under the same name and sometimes something really dubious. Always go with branded fabric, leading makers are Dimension Polyant (DP), Challenge and Contender. Peter Sanders wrote a guide to fabrics: http://www.sanders-sails.co.uk/materials.htm

Sprayhood material of choice was Sunbrella last I checked. There's also a huge difference between a well fitting and made one where the windows are stretched tight in both directions and a poorly made one where they are not and you can't look through them properly. When it comes to canvas work, the sewing is the easy part, but the templating is tricky. And make sure all the zips are fully plastic, with plastic sliders, not aluminium, which does not last. Oh, and get them to waterproof it. Not all do and it's annoying having to do it yourself on a brand new piece of canvas that you just paid an arm and a leg for.
 
Yngmar said:
Peter Sanders wrote a guide to fabrics: http://www.sanders-sails.co.uk/materials.htm
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Interesting, he covers the Hood cloth situation fairly authoritatively. Maybe a link to other threads on sailcloth choice and the Hood sailcloth availability.

It would be interesting to see the (technical specification) difference between the Hood cloth and those that have filled the market since it's departure.
 
Our new Sprayhood/Enclosure/Bimini/Sun Awning is all in Weathermax80. The material is a generation ahead of Sunbrella, and we are impressed with what we have seen so far, inspecting other boats with it fitted.
1st fit of the sprayhood this weekend!
 
FullCircle said:
Our new Sprayhood/Enclosure/Bimini/Sun Awning is all in Weathermax80. The material is a generation ahead of Sunbrella, and we are impressed with what we have seen so far, inspecting other boats with it fitted.
1st fit of the sprayhood this weekend!
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I'd be interested to know why you believe Weathermax to be a generation ahead. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on why it's the fabric of choice. If you look around the boatshow and forget Oyster, most new boat work will be manufactured in Sunbrella Plus.
For me I like the Matt finish of Sunbrella compared to the sheen of Weathermax and Sunbrella being manufactured from solution dyed acrylic is incredibly colour fast.
 
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jaybee63 said:
I'd be interested to know why you believe Weathermax to be a generation ahead. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on why it's the fabric of choice. If you look around the boatshow and forget Oyster, most new boat work will be manufactured in Sunbrella Plus.
For me I like the Matt finish of Sunbrella compared to the sheen of Weathermax and Sunbrella being manufactured from solution dyed acrylic is incredibly colour fast.
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I went with the Weathermax due to the weight advantage, less sag over time and the foldability, together with a superior mould resistance, and we have gone for the Tweedline Sandstone material which has the darker thread running through, but still has good light permissivity. It would seem that Weathermax 80 has a greater abrasion resistance over Sunbrella. Both are solution dyed.
I found that the heavier Sunbrella could be quite oppressive sitting in the rain on a damp day. The lighter weight and thinner material means the sausage is smaller, and the enclosure sides and sun awnings fits in much smaller stow bags. This also helps, as my boat is already at limits of weight.

I am not yet convinced that either is more UV resistant (besides those at the res end of the scale), or either have better weatherproofing before requiring a reproof, but we shall see. (I know the Sunbrella Plus has improved waterproofing)

I have nothing against Sunbrella, and it has served your industry very well for many years.
 
KellysEye said:
>Tec Sew in Gosport and they use Sunbrella

Their site says they use Sunbrella plus and Sunbrella Supreme neither of those are made by Sunbrella. It is simply called Sunbrella and only available in theUSA when we looked. https://www.sunbrella.com/en-us/fabrics/marine/collections/207/sunbrella-imagine-shade-collection
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I can assure you that yes, we do use Sunbrella Plus and Sunbrella Supreme as well as Sunbrella Surlast.
The vast majority of our work will be manufactured in Sunbrella Plus.

All of these fabrics are genuine Sunbrella fabrics and manufactured by Sunbrella. The Plus is a premium product over and above normal Sunbrella with enhanced permanent water repellency treatment to the underside.
All spec sheets are available within the Sunbrella menu on our home page, bottom left hand side.
 
FullCircle said:
I went with the Weathermax due to the weight advantage, less sag over time and the foldability, together with a superior mould resistance, and we have gone for the Tweedline Sandstone material which has the darker thread running through, but still has good light permissivity. It would seem that Weathermax 80 has a greater abrasion resistance over Sunbrella. Both are solution dyed.
I found that the heavier Sunbrella could be quite oppressive sitting in the rain on a damp day. The lighter weight and thinner material means the sausage is smaller, and the enclosure sides and sun awnings fits in much smaller stow bags. This also helps, as my boat is already at limits of weight.

I am not yet convinced that either is more UV resistant (besides those at the res end of the scale), or either have better weatherproofing before requiring a reproof, but we shall see. (I know the Sunbrella Plus has improved waterproofing)

I have nothing against Sunbrella, and it has served your industry very well for many years.
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I would agree that Weathermax is a lighter more flexible material with better abrasion resistance. This is a quality that you may wish for with a winter cover that will take a lot of rough handling, movement and abrasion.

However for Sprayhoods, Biminis and Cockpit enclosures abrasion resistance is not so much of a requirement. Colour fastness, appearance and resistance to UV degradation are more important, in my opinion. A lighter weight fabric is also more of a requirement for a tonneau cover with a large area that needs to fold and stow in a locker. It's often the case that clients may ask for a heavier fabric, not lighter.

I also believe that we see less problems with condensation due to the breathability of Sunbrella

One issue is that their are many different brands of Acrylic canvas with many cheaper brands. They are often all incorrectly referred to as Sunbrella. Different brands will have different coatings and technical specifications. Sunbrella is treated with a biocide and anti fungal treatment. Feel free to download the technical specs from the menus bottom left hand side of our home page.

Acrylic canvas like a new sail will be much bulkier due to the coatings, but with use quickly packs down much smaller, again similar to a new sail.

We supply importers of many new boat brands, many featured at SBS and these mainly feature Sunbrella Plus.

Hope this helps, again it's down to the client to do their research and make an informed decision. Sunbrella I s used worldwide on premium work and their will be many examples of canvas work in Sunbrella on marinas well over 12 years old still holding its colour and giving good service. Restitching may be required, but it's usually wear and tear and accidental damage that spells the end for a well made Sunbrella product.

Other materials often fail due to UV degradation resulting in loss of strength of the fabric, I'm not saying this is the case with all other fabrics, but when comparing specs it's something to consider.

I see mention of PVC fabrics as well and again condensation with lack of breathability can be a real problem with stiffening of the fabric as it ages and losses it's plasticiser.

John
www.tecsew.com
 
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