Sailing without electronics

[billmacfarlane]

There's been a few posts regarding switching off of GPS. I think there's a fair few of us who have cruised before the days of Decca/Loran/SatNav/GPS quite happily. Likewise there's some people who are newer to sailing and have never sailed without a position fixing system. The question to both groups is the same. Would you now go cruising in your normal cruising grounds without a position fixing system ?

 

[tonyleigh]

Yes. I have just travelled 3mls home without use of my usual aids (car). It was called walking. I did it because my car wasn't available but other considerations were entirely appropriate - decent shoes, time, warm dry weather.
One sails within the given resources - convenience and safety - GPS etc rate highly on both counts but their absence would not seriously affect where I go - just introduce a more significant element of when. For example - I shouldn't intentionally plan to get involved in complex combinations of tides, currents and poor visibility.
I still fear that discussions like these portray electronic and traditional navigation as opposing camps instead of two solutions to the same problems.

 

[tony_brighton]

Yes. I've only had boats with GPS - but the last one was a bit flakey and would 'freeze' when the voltage dropped halfway through a day's sail; resulting in old fashioned navigation stuff. Most of us sailing in our normal cruising grounds are probably not using GPS anyway - its mainly in sight of land and visual pilotage stuff.

 

[jeanette]

Yes. I have always had GPS available and therefore have worried less about mistakes I might be making, because they are more easily spotted when I plot an hourly GPS fix. As a novice this makes a huge difference to my enjoyment of sailing, but I am always aware that the batteries could fail and I might have to cope without it.

 

[billmacfarlane]

Don't think so Tony. I and I think most people still practice traditional navigation in parallel with the GPS. When I put a position on the chart using the GPS, I check it with using log readings/tide etc. If they tie up I trust the GPS. The reason I asked the question is that I've heard people say that they wouldn't e.g cross the Channel without a GPS. That took me aback a bit as before the advent of Decca we did it all the time and I wondered if we're more reliant on GPS than we like to think we are.

 

[jollyjacktar]

No electronics

When is sight of land, I make use of the Mark I eyeballs, stopped using GPS etc as I got lazy and found that I was relying on this entirely and not noticing my surrounds enough....potentially fatal. Good plain observation and checking of charts with dead reconning and bearings to landmarks, colour of water, current etc are much more important and relevant and essential aspects of seamanship. After all these then GPS is useful to confirm calculations.

I put it in the same catagory as the degeneration that occurred when electronic calculators replaced the good old rote learning of tables and all of a sudden young peole were totally happy that they had calculated 3 x 12 = 120. And as for checking change after a purchase or what was the best bargain in a supermarket, well that is a saga in itself.

 

[chrisc]

the big difference GPs made was that we now Know exactly
where we will make a landfall ,before we only knew approximately.
when the visibility is not so good I think we are all very happy to
have the GPS in front of us.

 

[AndrewB]

Interesting question.

Once I became accustomed to GPS, I simply gave up keeping a proper log, other than plotting the GPS position on the chart from time to time. I check that the position accords with common sense and eyeball evidence. But I don't run a DR backup or triangulate my position any more as a double-check because I don't expect my GPS to fail in a way that gives a misleading position. If it does go wrong then either it won't give a position at all or maybe it will stay stuck on one position.

On a few of my older charts, I can still see traces of the earlier hourly DR navigation with tidal corrections, and suppose I could still do it again if necessary, so it wouldn't stop me going out. But its been a long time.

Landfalls are far more predictable nowadays ... but also far less satisfying.

 

[bob_tyler]

My first channel crossings in an 18'6" Caprice were made with the only nav. aids being charts, steering compass (ex RAF govt. surplus), a Seafarer Mk I echosounder and a portable radio for the shipping forecast on long wave. That's all.

These trips were departing either from the Needles or Bembridge Ledge. Even when there was fog off the French coast I was nearly always within about 2 miles of the Cherbourg entrance (one of them anyway!) on sighting land. Having calculated the tidal set and probable leeway, I used to set a course and keep to it, using the 4hp Mercury longshaft outboard where necessary to hold the course. The echo sounder was most useful on approach as most of the marker buoys were laid on about the 10fthm mark so, if I was a bit off course, I would turn up tide, read the name off one and knew where I was. I only had to do this on one occasion, in fog, after 23hrs out from Bembridge ledge in very light winds & not using the motor.

GPS gives a great sense of security but isn't essential. I could never afford Decca.

 

[LadyInBed]

GPS gives me that belt and bracers feeling. I dont rearly need a GPS for landfalls I've made before. but its very helpful for a new one.

 

[david_bagshaw]

would definately agree with that.

David ps Take a look at my site www.yachtman.co.uk

 

[vyv_cox]

Perhaps the best answer to this question can be obtained by reading PBO or YM magazines from somewhere around the mid 1970s or early 80s, before any electronic means of navigation was available. Almost every issue had an article along the lines of "Lost in the Channel" in which yachts, for a whole variety of reasons, made errors in their DR and arrived miles away from their intended destination. Poor visiblity, mainly fog, was obviously one cause, but increased leeway in stronger winds, seasickness, inexperienced helm, mistakes in calculation, etc were others. All compounded by the human desire to recognise somewhere, when it patently is not what is wanted!

I guess that most yachtsmen who have been around for a while could make a reasonable stab at a longish passage without GPS in reasonable conditions. It's when things go pear-shaped that the accurate knowledge of position becomes so important.

 

[Footpad]

There are a lot more of us crossing the channel, I guess a percentage of those would not have done so had GPS not become available?

 

[Guest]

Not quite the same subject but as there has been so much mention of crossing the channel on this thread so far I thought I had canvas opinion on this subject! How does everyone calculate their net tidal vector for a channel crossing from say the Solent to Cherbourg. In the past I have used a channel tidal stream atlas drawn a course from Bembridge Ledge to Cherbourg on each of the relevant pages and then noted the tidal stream at the position I think I will be in for that given hour. Added them all up and hey presto my east or west tidal vector. Is this what everyone else does or is there some clever shortcut I've never been told about or do you all plug Cherbourg entrance in as a waypoint and follow the course to steer given by the black box.

David

 

[Twister_Ken]

I\'m with you on this

Your way is my way, except that I don't bother drawing a line on the stream atlas. It's worked so far!

 

[billmacfarlane]

Difficult to say. Because there were no position fixing systems commercially available and you basically used DR and whatever other methods you could e.g RDF ( bloody useless ) , I tended to pay much more attention to visibility reports. I also found it easier to cross the channel at night as you get very good fixes from the French lights or from St Cats to help your DR. I definely sail now in a lot more varying weather conditions than I did before I had a position fixing system.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: I\'m with you on this

Me too. I calculate beforehand to obtain the overall tidal vector , then sail the bearing indicated to the destination. We always log and DR every hour, so monitor variations from the calculated course and correct if necessary.

This works fine where the tidal flow is pretty much across your intended track, Channel, Irish Sea either to Ireland or IOM from Wales. Now that most of my passages tend to be more in the same direction as tidal flow, Holland to UK, and for about three changes of tide, I don't bother so much. Plus having a Garmin GPSMAP makes it so much easier to visualise.

 

[Mirelle]

Yes, of course, why not?

As a matter of fact I often do. As one who came late to GPS, I still habitually navigate the "old" way and I often complete a passage without glancing at the GPS - which I do carry.

The other aids to position finding are, if I may say so, still there!

 

[billmacfarlane]

If I'm sailing from Chichester to Cherbourg , I'll draw the rhumb line on the chart. I then do my overall tidal calculation based on the number of hours I reckon the passage to take. The course to steer is the one based on the tidal caculations. I then mark the course on the chart every hour and check against the rhumb line to see if the tide is what I calculated. Finally I try to finish a mile up tide if possible. I don't know if that's the what a sailing school would teach it but it's served me well over the years.

 

[chas]

Like others, GPS has made me a tad lazier. Rather than put a visual fix on the chart, I will put a GPS fix and then check it with visual marks. I believe that i can still use the older methods, but I do know that my ability to take accurate bearings quickly has deteriorated though lack of practice!