deputydawg
Active Member
Hi Guys, If you pop across to france is it true I will need a cert of competence and can only get this by doing the level 2 course ??
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Sailing to France?
- Thread starter deputydawg
- Start date
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
No, only need ICC for inland waterways in France
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Roy
Well-Known Member
This should help. Roy
Inland ICC
This is aimed at British Citizens chartering or using their own boat abroad, where a ‘driving licence’ that demonstrates the minimum level of competence is required.
Due to recent changes, the certificate can relate to both sail or power, and coastal or inland waters. Any combination is acceptable as long as you have passed the relevant sections applicable to what you wish to do.
For power boats, the examination lasts between 1 and 2 hours. You will be required to demonstrate boat handling up to RYA Powerboat Level 2. There is also a written test which differentiates between the Inland and Coastal Certificates.
You will be asked to complete a short written exam testing your knowledge of the CEVNI Rules (Code Européen des Voies de la Navigation Intérieure) which apply on European inland waterways.
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
Inland ICC
This is aimed at British Citizens chartering or using their own boat abroad, where a ‘driving licence’ that demonstrates the minimum level of competence is required.
Due to recent changes, the certificate can relate to both sail or power, and coastal or inland waters. Any combination is acceptable as long as you have passed the relevant sections applicable to what you wish to do.
For power boats, the examination lasts between 1 and 2 hours. You will be required to demonstrate boat handling up to RYA Powerboat Level 2. There is also a written test which differentiates between the Inland and Coastal Certificates.
You will be asked to complete a short written exam testing your knowledge of the CEVNI Rules (Code Européen des Voies de la Navigation Intérieure) which apply on European inland waterways.
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
Roy
Well-Known Member
And this too. Roy
Coastal ICC
This is aimed at British Citizens chartering or using their own boat abroad, where a ‘driving licence’ that demonstrates the minimum level of competence is required.
Due to recent changes, the certificate can relate to both sail or power, and coastal or inland waters. Any combination is acceptable as long as you have passed the relevant sections applicable to what you wish to do.
For power boats, the examination lasts between 1 and 2 hours. You will be required to demonstrate boat handling up to RYA Powerboat Level 2. There is also a written test which differentiates between the Inland and Coastal Certificates.
You will need to demonstrate a basic knowledge of the following:-
• Navigation and pilotage
• Chart, tidal calculations, buoyage
• Collision regulations
• Steering rules, sound and light signals
Persons exempt from the examination:
• Holders of the Level 2 Powerboat Course Certificate.
• Day Skipper Practical Course Completion Certificate, or higher.
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
Coastal ICC
This is aimed at British Citizens chartering or using their own boat abroad, where a ‘driving licence’ that demonstrates the minimum level of competence is required.
Due to recent changes, the certificate can relate to both sail or power, and coastal or inland waters. Any combination is acceptable as long as you have passed the relevant sections applicable to what you wish to do.
For power boats, the examination lasts between 1 and 2 hours. You will be required to demonstrate boat handling up to RYA Powerboat Level 2. There is also a written test which differentiates between the Inland and Coastal Certificates.
You will need to demonstrate a basic knowledge of the following:-
• Navigation and pilotage
• Chart, tidal calculations, buoyage
• Collision regulations
• Steering rules, sound and light signals
Persons exempt from the examination:
• Holders of the Level 2 Powerboat Course Certificate.
• Day Skipper Practical Course Completion Certificate, or higher.
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Yes, but simple answer is you don't need one to take your boat to France. Some countries yes. France no.
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miket
Well-Known Member
I believe BrendonS is correct, but if you are a member of the RYA phone them and ask.
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BrendanS
Well-Known Member
I've posted the link enough times, that you'd think by now people would believe me /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=117152>http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=117152</A>
quite simple, and beyond dispute
Quote:
When is an ICC required?
Generally, an ICC is required when navigating the inland waterways of Europe, the main notable exception is The Netherlands. In Holland an ICC is only required by vessels that are either longer than 15 metres and/or capable of more than 20 kph (~ 11 knots). If cruising to Europe to explore the canals and rivers, both categories 'coastal' and 'inland' will be required and so the CEVNI test, as well as proof of general boat handling competence, is needed.
It should also be noted that most European countries insist that vessels navigating their inland waters carry a copy of the relevant local rules. For France, The RYA Book of Euroregs for Inland Waterways suffices, but it does not for Holland or Germany. Those countries insist that their own publications, written only in their native languages, are carried. It is probably advisable to also carry the Euroregs book so that there is an English version of CEVNI on board too.
For coastal areas in Northern Europe and Scandinavia, the ICC is generally not required. Again, there are exceptions and these include Poland and the Baltic States of Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. It is also useful to have one in Germany. Conversely, in the Mediterranean an ICC is usually required, particularly in Italy, Greece, Croatia and Turkey. ICCs are not required in Spain on British flagged yachts. However, Spanish harbour masters and other officials are used to their own nationals having to be licensed and so can be difficult to persuade that British flagged vessels do not require them. You either have to be prepared to stand your ground and argue the case or you may decide that it is easier to actually have an ICC. Portugal does require skippers to hold the ICC.
More information on the regulations for taking British registered boats abroad can be found in the RYA "Foreign Cruising" booklets which are available from our online shop at www.rya.org.uk/shop or telephone the Orders Line on 0845 345 0372.
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<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=117152>http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=117152</A>
quite simple, and beyond dispute
Quote:
When is an ICC required?
Generally, an ICC is required when navigating the inland waterways of Europe, the main notable exception is The Netherlands. In Holland an ICC is only required by vessels that are either longer than 15 metres and/or capable of more than 20 kph (~ 11 knots). If cruising to Europe to explore the canals and rivers, both categories 'coastal' and 'inland' will be required and so the CEVNI test, as well as proof of general boat handling competence, is needed.
It should also be noted that most European countries insist that vessels navigating their inland waters carry a copy of the relevant local rules. For France, The RYA Book of Euroregs for Inland Waterways suffices, but it does not for Holland or Germany. Those countries insist that their own publications, written only in their native languages, are carried. It is probably advisable to also carry the Euroregs book so that there is an English version of CEVNI on board too.
For coastal areas in Northern Europe and Scandinavia, the ICC is generally not required. Again, there are exceptions and these include Poland and the Baltic States of Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. It is also useful to have one in Germany. Conversely, in the Mediterranean an ICC is usually required, particularly in Italy, Greece, Croatia and Turkey. ICCs are not required in Spain on British flagged yachts. However, Spanish harbour masters and other officials are used to their own nationals having to be licensed and so can be difficult to persuade that British flagged vessels do not require them. You either have to be prepared to stand your ground and argue the case or you may decide that it is easier to actually have an ICC. Portugal does require skippers to hold the ICC.
More information on the regulations for taking British registered boats abroad can be found in the RYA "Foreign Cruising" booklets which are available from our online shop at www.rya.org.uk/shop or telephone the Orders Line on 0845 345 0372.
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jfm
Well-Known Member
Hang on Brendan....
Brendan, that's not clear. All of that lot fails to say whether or not ICC is needed in French coastal waters.
Even with the bit you highlight in bold doesn't say it - it is qualified by the word "generally" and the text says there are exceptions, and when the exceptions are listed it merely says the list "includes" so there could be others. A distinctly unhelpful bit of advice from the RYA imho
France is not categorically dealt with in the mediterranean waters bit either.
On Monday this week, I was stopped while underway in French mediterranean waters by a Policeman (Gendarmerie De Mer or summink) and he insisted on seeing my ICC. I didn't pick a fight about being UK flagged etc, was not worth it, I just showed him the doc and he politely went on his way. So whatever the rules might be, there is a small chance the police will ask for ICC in French coastal waters, and they will behave as if they have the right to see it!
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Brendan, that's not clear. All of that lot fails to say whether or not ICC is needed in French coastal waters.
Even with the bit you highlight in bold doesn't say it - it is qualified by the word "generally" and the text says there are exceptions, and when the exceptions are listed it merely says the list "includes" so there could be others. A distinctly unhelpful bit of advice from the RYA imho
France is not categorically dealt with in the mediterranean waters bit either.
On Monday this week, I was stopped while underway in French mediterranean waters by a Policeman (Gendarmerie De Mer or summink) and he insisted on seeing my ICC. I didn't pick a fight about being UK flagged etc, was not worth it, I just showed him the doc and he politely went on his way. So whatever the rules might be, there is a small chance the police will ask for ICC in French coastal waters, and they will behave as if they have the right to see it!
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Roy
Well-Known Member
>>'I've posted the link enough times, that you'd think by now people would believe me' << Which people would these be now Brendan?? I believe that you think you are right but nothing in the quote from RYA states the fact or refutes it re ICC in France. Anyway, it's only a bit of 'recognised' paper following on from the most basic requirement for any kind of semi serious boating expedition i.e. Lvl 2 or Dayskipper. Best not go overseas without one. Roy
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
<hr width=100% size=1>What does this mean then?
Tekkie
Well-Known Member
I've Sailed the coast of France, Belgum and Holland and have been asked many times for my ICC.
Regards
Brian
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Regards
Brian
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BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re: Hang on Brendan....
It seems fairly clear to me, and mentions all the places you do need an ICC in coastal waters. It's a good general document. However, if you want it really clear cut, and in relation to France only, then:
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=603349>http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=603349</A>
quote:
am sailing my boat to France; do I need an International Certificate of Competence (ICC)?
The skippers of British Registered boats – motor or sail - do not require an ICC or any other certificate of competence when sailing in French coastal waters. However, if you are planning on going inland then you must have your ICC with your CEVNI inland endorsement.
If you are chartering or using a French registered boat, you may need a certificate of competence. You should check with the Charter Company prior to hiring the boat.
You can find more detailed information in C1/02 “Foreign Cruising Vol.1” available from the RYA Online Shop .
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It seems fairly clear to me, and mentions all the places you do need an ICC in coastal waters. It's a good general document. However, if you want it really clear cut, and in relation to France only, then:
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=603349>http://www.rya.org.uk/Cruising/faqs.asp?contentID=603349</A>
quote:
am sailing my boat to France; do I need an International Certificate of Competence (ICC)?
The skippers of British Registered boats – motor or sail - do not require an ICC or any other certificate of competence when sailing in French coastal waters. However, if you are planning on going inland then you must have your ICC with your CEVNI inland endorsement.
If you are chartering or using a French registered boat, you may need a certificate of competence. You should check with the Charter Company prior to hiring the boat.
You can find more detailed information in C1/02 “Foreign Cruising Vol.1” available from the RYA Online Shop .
<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
jfm
Well-Known Member
Re: Hang on Brendan....
Brendan, OK the quote you make in your last post is quite clear about not needing ICC in French coastal waters, however I was referring to your original post, which didn't contain the same text and which clearly didn't say ICC was not needed.
I dont know the underlying legals of all this but I'd question the RYA advice at least on practical level. I am quite sure from experience (as are others above) that the french police do stop you and demand to see ICC. Now maybe one could argue with them that it's not needed but from their general demeanour I dont think they'd like that. As a practical matter you are much better with ICC imho becuase then you get rid of them in 10 minutes if you are unlucky enough to be pulled over.
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Brendan, OK the quote you make in your last post is quite clear about not needing ICC in French coastal waters, however I was referring to your original post, which didn't contain the same text and which clearly didn't say ICC was not needed.
I dont know the underlying legals of all this but I'd question the RYA advice at least on practical level. I am quite sure from experience (as are others above) that the french police do stop you and demand to see ICC. Now maybe one could argue with them that it's not needed but from their general demeanour I dont think they'd like that. As a practical matter you are much better with ICC imho becuase then you get rid of them in 10 minutes if you are unlucky enough to be pulled over.
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BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re: Hang on Brendan....
General experience. Not needed. Loads of people go on trips to France without even a knowledge of flying courtesy flags. If you are popping off cross channel for a day or weekend, you are not going to be challenged for an ICC, or even a VAT certificate, so I can't see why people keep bringing up this crap over and over again,
If you are going to cruise the french coast or even stay there for a few weeks or months, then the French authorities may well ask you for documents.
If you have all the certification you actually do need, SSR or part 1, passports etc, and as many others have said before, put it all together in a package so everything is there for the authorities to see, they will never question you about ICC's and similar. Most of it is about attitude. If you are easy to deal with, you will only be asked for the documentation they actually require.
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General experience. Not needed. Loads of people go on trips to France without even a knowledge of flying courtesy flags. If you are popping off cross channel for a day or weekend, you are not going to be challenged for an ICC, or even a VAT certificate, so I can't see why people keep bringing up this crap over and over again,
If you are going to cruise the french coast or even stay there for a few weeks or months, then the French authorities may well ask you for documents.
If you have all the certification you actually do need, SSR or part 1, passports etc, and as many others have said before, put it all together in a package so everything is there for the authorities to see, they will never question you about ICC's and similar. Most of it is about attitude. If you are easy to deal with, you will only be asked for the documentation they actually require.
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Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
You would have seen all the responses as to wether you actually need to produce an ICC in France. One point worth making is that should one attempt such passages in any case without at least a level of competance, such as that acquired when completing an ICC.
Power boat level two gives you an ICC
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>
Power boat level two gives you an ICC
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>
jfm
Well-Known Member
Re: Hang on Brendan....
Brendan dont get arsey with me please. I just pointed out that your paragraph did not say what you claimed it said, and I was correct in that as a matter of English language. You might call this "crap" but I guess that's cos you have not been stopped by police. Yes there are loads of people who are not stopped, but that's like saying loads of people make a car trip without a breakdown or puncture so you dont need the AA or a spare wheel. Being stopped by French marine police is not a common occurence, probly <1% chance. But that doesn't mean you wont be. I have been, twice in 6 years of Frecnh coastal boating.
When they decide whether to stop you, they dunno if you just cruised in for a short holiday or if you have been there ages. How could they? This cannot possibly impact their decision to stop you.
Re your last paragraph, I was polite to the policeman. He wasn't in the least interested in passport or VAT (he was police, not immigration or douanes). All he wanted to see was my ICC and insurance. As said before I could I suppose have said "UK flag so no ICC" but it's much easier imho to show them an ICC. If you're telling me you have been stopped by French police and refused to show ICC because UK flag, and they just said "Fine, no problem, on your way" then I'll eat humble pie and stand corrected
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Brendan dont get arsey with me please. I just pointed out that your paragraph did not say what you claimed it said, and I was correct in that as a matter of English language. You might call this "crap" but I guess that's cos you have not been stopped by police. Yes there are loads of people who are not stopped, but that's like saying loads of people make a car trip without a breakdown or puncture so you dont need the AA or a spare wheel. Being stopped by French marine police is not a common occurence, probly <1% chance. But that doesn't mean you wont be. I have been, twice in 6 years of Frecnh coastal boating.
When they decide whether to stop you, they dunno if you just cruised in for a short holiday or if you have been there ages. How could they? This cannot possibly impact their decision to stop you.
Re your last paragraph, I was polite to the policeman. He wasn't in the least interested in passport or VAT (he was police, not immigration or douanes). All he wanted to see was my ICC and insurance. As said before I could I suppose have said "UK flag so no ICC" but it's much easier imho to show them an ICC. If you're telling me you have been stopped by French police and refused to show ICC because UK flag, and they just said "Fine, no problem, on your way" then I'll eat humble pie and stand corrected
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