Sailing School Fails YM Coastal

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Babylon

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I was recently booked on a YM Coastal 5 day course plus MCA exam, which turned out to be a 4 day course minus MCA exam! - because the training boat had been double-booked for the first day of the course and no examiner had been arranged at all - both the fault of the school!

I'd arranged the course through a highly experienced freelance instructor (who was both first-class and indeed inspirational), who'd booked the yacht with the sailing school; and both the instructor and the school provided students.

While I certainly got all the relevent additional training and preparation I personally needed over the four days that the boat was available (night and blind nav, mob recovery under sail and boat-handling in challenging conditions, etc,), and while it was encouraging that in the instructor's own opinion I'd almost certainly pass the MCA assessment, I was pretty miffed that the school had been so bl**dy casual about ensuring that the boat was available and an examiner properly booked. Due to intense work and young family commitments, I only had a short window in which to mug up the theory beforehand, do the course and be assessed by an examiner - now I won't be able to afford the time probably until next season.

I've contacted the school requesting some compensation, but my efforts have been completely ignored. Technically my contract was with the instructor, not the school, so there's no benefit in pursuing it legally with the school. The instructor, who was faultless in every regard, has decided not to work with the school any more - and has also very kindly offered to give me exam preparation tuition on my own boat over a future weekend and book the examiner himself directly.

The shame of the matter is that the school used to be quite good, but is now apparently owned by a businessman who, although a yachtsman himself, seems to have no interest in running the show professionally. Should I make a formal complaint of my experience to the RYA?
 
I believe that the examination boat has to be coded.

Complain to the RYA if you wish but it sounds to me like some sort of cockup - and like it or not , these happen in the best of organisations. Never made one yourself?
 
Charter boats have to be coded, examination boats dont need to be. But you would be expected to carry a minimum level of safety kit.
 
The very least they owe you is one fifth of the money back for the day you lost.After you have worked hard to prepare yourself I dont think forgetting to book an examiner is acceptable at all .If the school werent very apologetic and offered me some acceptable alternative days I would definitely complain to the RYA.

For doing the exam on your own boat seaworthy and over 25 ft LOA used to be the criteria but check with RYA as that may have changed.
 
Babylon said:
. . . Technically my contract was with the instructor, not the school, so there's no benefit in pursuing it legally with the school. The instructor, who was faultless in every regard, has decided not to work with the school any more - and has also very kindly offered to give me exam preparation tuition on my own boat over a future weekend and book the examiner himself directly.

The shame of the matter is that the school used to be quite good, but is now apparently owned by a businessman who, although a yachtsman himself, seems to have no interest in running the show professionally. Should I make a formal complaint of my experience to the RYA?
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The instructor with whom you had a contract failed to fulfil it as promised, ostensibly because he was let down by one of his suppliers. He has however made a very reasonable offer to remedy his failure. If you made a formal complaint to the RYA you would effectively be putting him in the frame, but you evidently don't wish to do so.

It appears that the evidence you have of poor practice by the school is largely hearsay - and I don't think that a complaint on such a basis by a person who did not have a contract with the school would get very far.
 
Freestyle said:
He has however made a very reasonable offer to remedy his failure.
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I would take the instructors offer particluarly if it involved a weekend own boat tuition prior to taking the exam. You gain an extra couple of days instruction prior to the exam and on your own boat.

Pete
 
Babylon - The answer is yes, in my opinion - raise your point to the RYA and state the position clearly, especially the commercial relationship between that of the school and instructor.

You were not being taught on an RYA Course, but if you were the school would have been liable, as only the school can issue the certificate, but the RYA need to be more stringent on the quality of tuition services being run on their behalf.

In this case it's is not really an RYA matter as you were only using the school boat for a non RYA approved preparatory course, but too me that is not the point. If the RYA want to maintain the "education and not legislation" mantra, then they should have an opinion on sloppy business practices by RYA affiliated schools.

Many others may disagree because for example, they believe the market should sort out the sloppy schools - but its the standard that the RYA want, that is at risk of being compromised by bad practice.

Of course it may all have been a genuine mistake.
 
Babylon said:
I was recently booked on a YM Coastal 5 day course plus MCA exam, which turned out to be a 4 day course minus MCA exam! - because the training boat had been double-booked for the first day of the course and no examiner had been arranged at all - both the fault of the school!

. . . . . . . . . Should I make a formal complaint of my experience to the RYA?
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The problem is with the school's admin, or lack of it, and you were using the school's boat all be it through a freelance instructor (which is probably the norm now to avoid the hastle of keeping full time employees in what is essentially intermittent employment).

I would be inclined to inform the RYA that the administrative systems of the school did not work as expected. You have already published your grievance here, so why not also take it to the organisation that has responsibility for monitoring sailing school performance.

You can also point out that you have no complaint with the instructor or his tuition.

You just may help someone else avoid a similar experience.
 
Re reading the OP, the weeks sailing 'course' was one that was partly organised by him and his instructor. If I read correctly the OPer did not enroll on a course that was organised by a school as a scheduled course. It was, rather, him organising an instructor, the instructor then organising a boat from the school, the school then providing some other students, presumably as crew.

So the school is unlikely to have infringed any RYA 'sailing school' conditions. They are, and this is how I am reading it, are rather in breach of yacht charter terms of business, which may be of little interest to the RYA. The only link is that the boat was to be used for a training program, but not one being run by them, there may be a significant difference here.

As the course was not being run by the company providing the boat, was there simply a misunderstanding as to who would book the examiner? After all, anyone can book an examiner. It is after all the RYA who issues the certificate anyway, again not the school.

All this said, the charter provider, have let down the OP and his tutor by double booking the boat.
 
Guapa said:
Don't think so - you can even take the exam on your own boat. Provided the examiner thinks it's seaworthy...
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You certainly can take any exam on your own boat - just provide a seaworthy boat over 24 foot with a reasonable amount of safety kit.

I quote,

"The selection and provision of the boat for a practical exam is the responsibility of the candidate. She must be sound, adequately equipped for the
area in which the exam is to take place and sufficient crew must be provided by the candidate in order to man the boat efficiently. In general, for
Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster exams, boats used for exams must be at least 24ft LOA. For Advanced Powerboat exams, the vessel must be
seaworthy for the area of the exam."


The boat doesn't have to reach coded standards, but most boats with the normal amount of safety kit will do nicely.
 
Sailing schools will regularly arrange for candidates to take exams.

Ask the friendly sailing instructor to ask sailing school to add you to others for the exam only.

Be cheapest option for him as examiners want to have a profitable day and I believe are only paid by an each exam and would therefor probabluy surcharge for a 1 day 1 off.
 
Sailfree said:
Be cheapest option for him as examiners want to have a profitable day and I believe are only paid by an each exam and would therefor probabluy surcharge for a 1 day 1 off.
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No, two friends have done YM exam on their own boat and IIRC both only paid the RYA fee as advertised.
 
Sailfree said:
Sailing schools will regularly arrange for candidates to take exams.

Ask the friendly sailing instructor to ask sailing school to add you to others for the exam only.

Be cheapest option for him as examiners want to have a profitable day and I believe are only paid by an each exam and would therefor probabluy surcharge for a 1 day 1 off.
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No surcharges allowed. The fee we receive is pro rata - ie per candidate. Its obviously beneficial financially to examine more than one candidate at a time, but the process is longer and there are recommended limits for how many candidates at a time. (Usually no more than three.)
 
galadriel said:
Why did you use a school boat if you have your own?
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I opted to use a school boat, so I would benefit from a fully-crewed situation while doing the course, rather than my own boat which isn't really big enough for more than three in total - although it is fully-equipped with the usual safety equipment in good working order to be suitable for an exam.

Its also worth noting that, although the instructor was freelance, the course was in fact the RYA course, and the school themselves provided at least one student out of the four others, all of whom were signed up to do the RYA Day Skipper course. So, as far as I was aware the course I was on wasn't a private bit of instruction for the five of us, but in fact a five day RYA course instructed by someone who, although freelance, is himself is a RYA instructor and able to issue course-completion certificates in his own right.

As to the 'it was a simple cockup, it could happen to anybody' argument, well actually it was an inexcusable lack of basic clerical management, which I subsequently found out is increasingly the norm with this school. The whole point of my question (ie should I raise the matter with the RYA?) is that people take time off work and pay good money in good faith for these courses. If a school is so casual about its 'punters' (nasty expression of course, but that is how I feel we were treated), whether or not they happen to be on an independently-run RYA course or on a wholly school-run RYA course, then in my opinion they shouldn't benefit from carte-blanche RYA accreditation.

I haven't received any acknowledgement to my complaint, let alone an apology from the school - which confirms my belief that this particular organisation just doesn't give a d@mn.

As has been noted, I don't particularly want to involve the instructor himself in any complaint to the RYA, and of course he's offered me a weekend's exam preparation on my own boat, so I feel adequately compensated. I also continue to have good faith in the system as a whole.
 
The own-boat personal weekend tuition with a top notch instructor is an unexpected bonus. Once you have got over the current disappointment I think you will realize things worked out quite well.

Anyhow a few seasons from now these bits of paper won't seem to important.
 
The tone of your note suggests, quite understandably, that you are aggrieved by the situation.

If there is no reply, or at least a holding letter, from the school after a reasonable period of time, I would certainly raise the matter with RYA.

It isn’t totally clear to me, did you complete and submit the examination form prior to taking the course & exam? Do you have anything in writing from the school acknowledging your intention to do both?
 
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