Sailing qualifications for beginners ?

[borischelski]

Please accept my apologies for this unbelievably basic question !

As a complete novice I am planning to learn to sail with a view to in future spending holidays hiring a small boat to sail around the greek islands.

My plan (having achieved the required basic qualifications) would be to participate in a "flotilla" holiday in the first year and the following year to hire a boat to skipper on my own.

However having explored both the Sunsail & RYA websites, as a beginner I have found myself getting very confused as to the different required levels of accreditation & qualifications.

From what I can see the two key basis levels appear to be ICC or RYA Day Skipper ?

Is this correct ?

Are these typically an "either/ or", or would I require both - either for the flotilla holiday or probably more likely to hire a boat in Greece myself ?

Sorry again for probably very dumb questions, any advice would be greatly appreciated....

 

[Strolls]

ICC stands for "International Certificate of Competence" - it's something that a country's sailing organisation can issue to its members so that their abilities are recognised in other countries. Thus charter companies know that, whatever country you're from, an ICC is good enough to sail more-or-less safely.

The RYA's qualifications are: Competent Crew ⇒ Day Skipper ⇒ Coastal Skipper ⇒ Yachtmaster Offshore ⇒ Yachtmaster Ocean
(Is Coastal Skipper being phased out in favour of Yachtmaster Offshore?)

If you have a Day Skipper, RYA will automatically issue an ICC.
http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/icc/Pages/who-can-get-an-icc-from-the-rya.aspx

Very much agree the way some Sunsail advertise their courses is quite confusion in this regard - I have no idea why they offer separate ICC and Day Skipper courses. If I recollect these are the same number of days. Take a Day Skipper one.

 

[SteveSarabande]

If you are a complete beginner take the RYA Competent crew. You can't just jump straight in to Day Skipper without doing the RYA Day skipper theory.

ICC isn't automatically allocated, you have to apply for it after passing RYA Day Skipper. As an RYA member it is free, otherwise there is a small charge.

 

[alant]

If you are a complete beginner take the RYA Competent crew. You can't just jump straight in to Day Skipper without doing the RYA Day skipper theory.

ICC isn't automatically allocated, you have to apply for it after passing RYA Day Skipper. As an RYA member it is free, otherwise there is a small charge.

I have had people turn up on school boats, who have neither done comp crew, or DS theory, or even any previous sailing. They then take up the time which should be allocated to those who have done the pre requisites. Don't know if there is a RYA ban on this these days, having retired from the practical stuff.

 

[PCUK]

Had this on a Yachtmaster theory course many years ago. Basically buggered the course for everyone else.
Very good that Boris has asked the original question.

 

[alant]

Had this on a Yachtmaster theory course many years ago. Basically buggered the course for everyone else.
Very good that Boris has asked the original question.

Ah, but theory courses are populated by people who found the Spanish/art appreciation/etc course was full, no need to have any marine interest. Have had guys on Ocean/Astro courses, who had the previous requisite YM theory, but had never been on a boat.

 

[roblpm]

ICC stands for "International Certificate of Competence" - it's something that a country's sailing organisation can issue to its members so that their abilities are recognised in other countries. Thus charter companies know that, whatever country you're from, an ICC is good enough to sail more-or-less safely.

The RYA's qualifications are: Competent Crew ⇒ Day Skipper ⇒ Coastal Skipper ⇒ Yachtmaster Offshore ⇒ Yachtmaster Ocean
(Is Coastal Skipper being phased out in favour of Yachtmaster Offshore?)

If you have a Day Skipper, RYA will automatically issue an ICC.
http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/icc/Pages/who-can-get-an-icc-from-the-rya.aspx

Very much agree the way some Sunsail advertise their courses is quite confusion in this regard - I have no idea why they offer separate ICC and Day Skipper courses. If I recollect these are the same number of days. Take a Day Skipper one.

Coastal Skipper vs Yachtmaster......

Competent Crew, Dayskipper and Coastal Skipper are courses that as long as you complete the course at an adequate level the instructor will award you a course completion certificate.

Yachtmaster Coastal, Offshore and Ocean are exam passes. Ie you book an rya examiner and he/she assesses your skills.

So I have Coastal Skipper as I have completed the Practical course but would have to book an examiner to get Coastal Skipper. I think the confusion is that the level of skills at this level is supposed to be about the same.

 

[duncan99210]

Coastal Skipper vs Yachtmaster......

Competent Crew, Dayskipper and Coastal Skipper are courses that as long as you complete the course at an adequate level the instructor will award you a course completion certificate.

Yachtmaster Coastal, Offshore and Ocean are exam passes. Ie you book an rya examiner and he/she assesses your skills.

So I have Coastal Skipper as I have completed the Practical course but would have to book an examiner to get Coastal Skipper. I think the confusion is that the level of skills at this level is supposed to be about the same.

Hmm, not quite right, I think you'll find. First off, the RYA has changed the name of the Coastal Skipper to Yachtmaster Coastal. Second, you can get a Coastal Yachtmaster course completion certificate but to gain the actual qualification you will have to do a practical exam. See here for details: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Coastalskipper.asps

There is no examination for the award of CC or DS. The instructor will conduct a continuous assessment during the course before awarding the certificate at the end of the course. Very few failures as the bar is deliberately set fairly low but it does happen.

 

[roblpm]

Hmm, not quite right, I think you'll find. First off, the RYA has changed the name of the Coastal Skipper to Yachtmaster Coastal. Second, you can get a Coastal Yachtmaster course completion certificate but to gain the actual qualification you will have to do a practical exam. See here for details: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Coastalskipper.asps

There is no examination for the award of CC or DS. The instructor will conduct a continuous assessment during the course before awarding the certificate at the end of the course. Very few failures as the bar is deliberately set fairly low but it does happen.

Hmmmm. That link gives me a 404.

When I look on the RYA site this page gives details of the Coastal Skipper course:
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/Coastalskipper.aspx

This page gives details of the Yachtmaster Coastal exam: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Coastalskipper.aspx

I am talking about practicals. Not theory.

Or has this changed very recently. I have a Coastal Skipper course completion card from 2015.

 

[reeac]

Had this on a Yachtmaster theory course many years ago. Basically buggered the course for everyone else.
Very good that Boris has asked the original question.

The other side to this is the many people who never get the concept of vectors despite many repetitions and just have to learn navigation by rote ( or buy a plotter).

 

[SteveSarabande]

Hmmmm. That link gives me a 404.

When I look on the RYA site this page gives details of the Coastal Skipper course:
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/Coastalskipper.aspx

This page gives details of the Yachtmaster Coastal exam: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Coastalskipper.aspx

I am talking about practicals. Not theory.

Or has this changed very recently. I have a Coastal Skipper course completion card from 2015.

you are correct, the other post is wrong

 

[Melody]

I have had people turn up on school boats, who have neither done comp crew, or DS theory, or even any previous sailing. They then take up the time which should be allocated to those who have done the pre requisites. Don't know if there is a RYA ban on this these days, having retired from the practical stuff.

The school should not accept people who do not have the pre-requisite practical experience and theoretical knowledge. It is clearly specified and it is up to the training centre to 'vet' prospective students and advise them on the correct level of course. That's what happens at a well-run establishment, but some schools seem to just take anyone, which is very tough on their instructors.

Of course, some people could fib about what they have done and what they know, but it will quickly become obvious that they don't have the experience they claim. They should then be advised that they are unlikely to reach the required level to pass, but the instructor can do his or her best to give them as much training as possible.

There should never be a case when someone without the pre-requisites takes up so much of the instructors time that it is detrimental to the other students.

If you are a beginner, definitely start with Comp Crew. As in most sports, being taught well at the start will pay dividends later on.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I've done the Yacht master Ocean theory course and it would be possible to do it successfully and pass the exam without setting foot on a yacht although I would wonder 'why'.

Ah, but theory courses are populated by people who found the Spanish/art appreciation/etc course was full, no need to have any marine interest. Have had guys on Ocean/Astro courses, who had the previous requisite YM theory, but had never been on a boat.

 

[ghostlymoron]

It's usually about the numbers why unqualified students are allowed to take courses. I did all my theory courses at the local college, they stipulate that each course has to have 12 students to be viable. The course tutor is thus tempted to bump up a few students from, say, DS to CS to ensure that both course run. It happened on my coastal skipper course as was a real PITA having to go over trivial day skipper stuff just to educate one student who hasn't done it before.

 

[Melody]

If the student doesn't have the pre-requisite then they should not pass. It seems totally unfair to me that other students suffer.

One problem is that many UK sailing schools offer courses at ridiculously low prices so they need to get five students on board to make any money. If they priced so that they could run with lower numbers of properly qualified people they wouldn't need to make up the numbers with unsuitable students.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I don't agree that the courses are ridiculously cheap. My DS and CS theory courses were about £50 around 2005, when I took YM ocean a couple of years ago it was £350 because the college/government had remove d the adult education subsidy.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Ocean at West Mersea YC is £60... DS and CS/YM are £190....

 

[jimbaerselman]

As a complete novice I am planning to learn to sail with a view to in future spending holidays hiring a small boat to sail around the greek islands.

My plan (having achieved the required basic qualifications) would be to participate in a "flotilla" holiday in the first year and the following year to hire a boat to skipper on my own.

..

If you're likely to be sailing with a friend or partner, then consider this most direct entry to meet your needs: Neilson - intro-to-yachting . It's a two week holiday, first week living ashore and taking a 4 day course; second week skippering your own boat.

Follow that up with a shore based theory course for Day Skipper, get some crewing experience through a crewing service and you're well on the way to getting a day skipper qualification

As you can see from those links, this is a quick way to qualifying to skipper a small boat in the Mediterranean. For members of the Cruising Association, it's also very good value - big discounts with both suppliers more than repay membership fees.

 

[TangaraToo]

Ocean at West Mersea YC is £60... DS and CS/YM are £190....

I'm guessing that's a members only price?

 

[ex-Gladys]

I'm guessing that's a members only price?

Nope...