Sailing in Big Seas

And as the bloke says, all in all, those conditions are not too bad because the swell and wind are coming on the same direction. The ship is actually a rescue ship, and clearly is built for that purpose. I know virtually nothing, but I suppose most yachts simply don't have the power in their engines to cope with weather like that, or the displacement? Many of those waves are absolute monsters, but worse, they can often be seen breaking.

I've been out in a F6 on an inflatable kayak once or twice, but with the wind and waves (and me) all going in the same direct, I could surf along them in a nice rythem. But I've also been in areas where the currents are going crazy, and the sea was really confused, and even in 1ft waves it felt unpleasant to me.

I've read South by Shackleton, and the boat they used was little more than a converted lifeboat, and they said they encountered 'monstrous' waves, and when those guys say that, I guess they weren't lying. It's really interesting to me - are seastates like that only really occurring in the higher/lower latitudes? Compared to that, the original video looks mild, and I'd go kayaking it for a laugh if it wasn't too cold (maybe not actually).
 
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I have often dreamed about crossing the atlantic single handed in my 31 ft yacht, but the biggest worry has always been the motion that I would encounter. I have never really had a serious answer to my queries about motion.

I have been in F8 quite a few times in the southern north sea & twice in my sailing life in F9. (once crewed in my current boat & once SH in my first boat) But normally not more than about 20 hour trips.My first boat would heave to beautifully & just sit there & bob up & down. My current boat will not allow me to leave the tiller for a single second on any point of sail & will not heave too.

Last month I crossed the Dover straits , Boulogne to Ramsgate, in F8. I could not use the autopilot & I could not even contemplate getting below due to the motion. I just had to sit it out by the tiller & hold on. Having crossed the shipping lane I bore off for Ramsgate & the GPS showed SOG of 12 +kts quite a lot of times times (with the tide of course) the boat just went mad.

How on earth can someone survive a gale in the atlantic for several days in conditions like that.
A single handed sailor friend claims that he has encountered worse seas off Canvey island than in 2 atlantic crossings. I find that difficult to understand.

So what is the motion really like. Are the seas anything like those in the Dover Straits or are they just big and rolly. Big swells are OK, but they must still have waves on them.
How does one cope with that day after day in a 31 ft boat?
 
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Daydream believer said:
I have often dreamed about crossing the atlantic single handed in my 31 ft yacht, but the biggest worry has always been the motion that I would encounter. I have never really had a serious answer to my queries about motion.

I have been in F8 quite a few times in the southern north sea & twice in my sailing life in F9. (once crewed in my current boat & once SH in my first boat) But normally not more than about 20 hour trips.My first boat would heave to beautifully & just sit there & bob up & down. My current boat will not allow me to leave the tiller for a single second on any point of sail & will not heave too.

Last month I crossed the Dover straits , Boulogne to Ramsgate, in F8. I could not use the autopilot & I could not even contemplate getting below due to the motion. I just had to sit it out by the tiller & hold on. Having crossed the shipping lane I bore off for Ramsgate & the GPS showed SOG of 12 +kts quite a lot of times times (with the tide of course) the boat just went mad.

How on earth can someone survive a gale in the atlantic for several days in conditions like that.
A single handed sailor friend claims that he has encountered worse seas off Canvey island than in 2 atlantic crossings. I find that difficult to understand.

So what is the motion really like. Are the seas anything like those in the Dover Straits or are they just big and rolly. Big swells are OK, but they must still have waves on them.
How does one cope with that day after day in a 31 ft boat?
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We're thinking of a trip to the Azores in our 32 foot Sadler. The three things I want are a wind vane, a boat that can heave-to, and a Jordan Series Drogue.
 
ross84 said:
What determines if a boat can heave to or not? Keel type?
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I gather that most boats can be made to heave-to with some experimenting with the sails and rudder but long keel and heavy displacement is easier and blade-like keel and light displacement may be difficult to impossible. Our S32 is somewhere between but heaves-to in all conditions I've tried it so far.
 
ross84 said:
What determines if a boat can heave to or not? Keel type?
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It's mainly the keel. A cutter rig is an advantage; a long keel, especially with a deep forefoot, will always be amenable, but forget heaving-to if she has the type of keel which only provides a useable lateral force when the water is flowing over it ( like an aircraft wing which stalls if the airflow is too slow, or in the wrong direction. )
If a boat can't heave to, many will question the seaworthiness of that design. It's like a dog which won't sit. If you have never hove-to, try it!
If a boat heaves-to happily, the owner will be well versed into the two ways of getting into the hove-to, and getting out of it (under sail alone). Gybing out of it works well on my vessel, is the least effort and so satisfying I do it for fun.
Traditionally you would have heaved-to to sit on the starboard tack, to force other sailing vessels to give way, but out at sea that's rarely relevant and I would just tack into it then gybe out, which is always possible and doesn't require any hauling if you're smart with the mainsheet.
 
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Would the S26/29 be the same? Would you consider any of the Sadlers bluewater boats? I've been looking at the 26/29 and really like them.
 
This heaves to very nicely. Fin keel, but the volume of the two ends and the shape of the canoe body mean that she doesn’t get wiggly when seas pass under her, and there is enough length of keel to resist sideways drift. Cutter, so as you reef down you bring the sail area inboard and over the centres of gravity, of lateral resistance and of buoyancy.

Boats with fat backsides and sloop rig usually won’t, imho.

 
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ross84 said:
Would the S26/29 be the same? Would you consider any of the Sadlers bluewater boats? I've been looking at the 26/29 and really like them.
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As much as I love our Sadler 32 I wouldn't, despite our plans for the Azores, consider her or 29s or 26s ideal bluewater craft. The smaller the boat, the slower, more uncomfortable, difficulty in carrying water, fuel, gear etc. and, ultimately the greater danger of being rolled if caught sideways to a big breaking sea. However, smaller craft do manage and, speaking personally, the S32 is the only boat I will own and so we either go or don't in her - there are no other choices.

All that said, you might be interested in this view on the Sadler 29 ... http://theguerns.blogspot.com/2010/11/sadler-29-world-cruiser.html
 
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Poey50 said:
As much as I love our Sadler 32 I wouldn't, despite our plans for the Azores, consider her or 29s or 26s ideal bluewater craft. The smaller the boat, the slower, more uncomfortable, difficulty in carrying water, fuel, gear etc. and, ultimately the greater danger of being rolled if caught sideways to a breaking sea. That said, smaller craft do manage and, speaking personally, the S32 is the only boat I will own and so we either go or don't in her - there are no other choices.

All that said you might be interested in this view on the Sadler 29 ... http://theguerns.blogspot.com/2010/11/sadler-29-world-cruiser.html
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I've read that - it's very encouraging and as discussed, people have done it on lesser boats than a Sadler. Interestingly, the C26/29 are famed bluewater boats, and I understood the Sadler's were designed off the back of the Contessas, but with the double skin hulls and more family friendly accommodations? For me, I can't afford anything more than a 32 max, and most likely I'll be buying 26/29ft, so it's that or nothing. But I want to obviously buy the best boat I can.
 
Poey50 said:
We're thinking of a trip to the Azores in our 32 foot Sadler. The three things I want are a wind vane, a boat that can heave-to, and a Jordan Series Drogue.
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We’ve just done a trip this year from Gib to the Canaries - difficult and uncomfortable beat out towards Madeira for a couple days before a unidentifiable leak (at the time) sent us downwind instead.

But we have none of your 3 requirements - an EPIRB was the only extra for the passage. I won’t be getting a windvane - it’s in the wrong place 99 percent of the time for a boat where you get off at the stern either at anchor or or tied up. Electronic pilot will do the job and just in case on our Atlantic crossing we will take two friends as manual steering backup. It won’t heave go in big seas and that’s a small pity but I expect to be beating slowly or going downwind in a very big blow. The drogue makes possible sense in those conditions though, so I have a simple parachute drogue as it’s far lighter and easier to pack and I can use an existing anchor warp set up for the job before leaving.

But in answer to the OP you either enjoy roughish conditions or you don’t - and the ability to get warm and get your head down is crucial so practicing lots of overnighters around the channel and Brittany is ideal and eats up the miles.
 
RupertW said:
................. I won’t be getting a windvane - it’s in the wrong place 99 percent of the time for a boat where you get off at the stern either at anchor or or tied up. Electronic pilot will do the job and just in case on our Atlantic crossing we will take two friends as manual steering backup. ...........................
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Apparently, the only Wind Vane that can be installed off-set so it doesn't obstruct stern access is Hydrovane. One of the main reasons why so many modern yachts use Hydrovane.
 
RupertW said:
We’ve just done a trip this year from Gib to the Canaries - difficult and uncomfortable beat out towards Madeira for a couple days before a unidentifiable leak (at the time) sent us downwind instead.

But we have none of your 3 requirements - an EPIRB was the only extra for the passage. I won’t be getting a windvane - it’s in the wrong place 99 percent of the time for a boat where you get off at the stern either at anchor or or tied up. Electronic pilot will do the job and just in case on our Atlantic crossing we will take two friends as manual steering backup. It won’t heave go in big seas and that’s a small pity but I expect to be beating slowly or going downwind in a very big blow. The drogue makes possible sense in those conditions though, so I have a simple parachute drogue as it’s far lighter and easier to pack and I can use an existing anchor warp set up for the job before leaving.

But in answer to the OP you either enjoy roughish conditions or you don’t - and the ability to get warm and get your head down is crucial so practicing lots of overnighters around the channel and Brittany is ideal and eats up the miles.
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May I politely query you phrase 'parachute drogue', as my reading around this subject ( I myself never having used the devices in a storm ) has led me to believe that they are completely different things: a sea anchor is streamed from the bows, like an anchor almost stopping your sternway with huge snatching potential, but the JSD is streamed from the stern, allowing you to make way slowly forwards downwind. The latter now being regarded as a better tactic. Or have I misunderstood your post?
I am learning about this kind of thing before doing some ocean sailing ( my first as skipper not crew) next winter.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
Apparently, the only Wind Vane that can be installed off-set so it doesn't obstruct stern access is Hydrovane. One of the main reasons why so many modern yachts use Hydrovane.
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Yes I looked at that but it’s not much of an offset - more to allow a transom hung rudder than people getting (and diving) on and off the boat. Given the tiny tiny percentage of time it would be used instead of the electric one my choice was no.
 
Ohlin Karcher said:
May I politely query you phrase 'parachute drogue', as my reading around this subject ( I myself never having used the devices in a storm ) has led me to believe that they are completely different things: a sea anchor is streamed from the bows, like an anchor almost stopping your sternway with huge snatching potential, but the JSD is streamed from the stern, allowing you to make way slowly forwards downwind. The latter now being regarded as a better tactic. Or have I misunderstood your post?
I am learning about this kind of thing before doing some ocean sailing ( my first as skipper not crew) next winter.
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You are right about the difference between a sea anchor and a drogue and I’m not at all convinced by the safety of a sea anchor on a hung rudder. So I went for the drogue option (so trailed from the stern) but as a single large drogue rather than a series of very small drogues attached along the warp. The JSD really appealed to me but cost and particularly storage space did not.
 
RupertW said:
You are right about the difference between a sea anchor and a drogue and I’m not at all convinced by the safety of a sea anchor on a hung rudder. So I went for the drogue option (so trailed from the stern) but as a single large drogue rather than a series of very small drogues attached along the warp. The JSD really appealed to me but cost and particularly storage space did not.
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Aha I see, thanks for explaining.
 
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