Sailing end in sight

robertj said:
With the increases in mooring/marina/visitor fees, the suppressed wages of the younger generation and austerity as a whole, are we seeing this decline as the tell tale sign of the end of boating for the ordinary person?
In my harbour there are many many vacant moorings available. If you wanted a mooring ten years ago you had cue on a certain day to get on the list. Now there is no problem.
Click to expand...

Not round by my home harbour. It is as busy as ever, children on the water in dinghy fleets all over the place in several thriving clubs. I see families and youngsters out on their own sailing confidently. Loads of dinghy racing events. Waiting lists for the good yacht moorings, a few spare moorings distance from launching sites. Every kind of yacht and dinghy you could imagine can be seen in the harbour.

It is real treat to see the young ones out on the water in the dinghy fleets. Even if I do have to dodge them often.

Chin up.

I lovely sight last time I was out was a young couple, maybe earlier 20s, confidently sailing a Sonata 7 around the harbour on a gusty day with full sail. The yacht look very basic and light as a feather with a tiny outboard, but with a newish set of sails. It was a pleasure to watch them enjoying themselves. Maybe it was Dad's boat or a club vessel.
 
Telstarr said:
As far as I'm concerned that is definitely what is NOT required.

A few years ago, the BBC went nuts about the Lake District with several programmes devoted to the area. My wife an I had, up until then, always spent a week renting a holiday cottage and walking in the Lakes. But after the BBC splurge, the Lakes became more overcrowded than ever and the prices of holiday cottages went through the roof. We have stopped going as a result.

I'm quite happy with sailing having a low profile in the media.
Click to expand...

+Many
I had a similar experience as a cyclist after 2012 Olympics when every man and his dog thought they were Wiggins with a few pies inside him. Nothing positive about it for those who enjoyed cycling for its own sake rather than as a "must do" lifestyle choice, replete with Asos lycra, as espoused by the Guardegraph. Here's hoping for a spectacular decline and the return of deserted anchorages.
 
Last edited:
I have to say that I agree with most of what has been posted here regarding the financial commitments, but I feel there is also more to it than that.

30 years ago, electronic entertainment was limited to TV / Radio & recorded music. Now TV in all its' 500 + channels is the norm, and then if there's nothing on there, add in streaming, facebook, etc.

People tend to live adventure vicariously through docu-soaps ( stuck on and island / jungle etc ) and then go off on holiday all inclusive.

This consumption provides an easy fix, and an easy situation to maintain. The cost of the 50" TV, Sky, Netflix, Playstation, Tablet, posh Phone, and data consumption is not insignificant, and could probably pay for a small yacht and the mooring / upkeep easily, but that doesn't give instant gratification.

So to take my experience in hand, which is all I really have to go on.
I've sailed a few times in the past, but never to the stage that I would call myself able! I took some dinghy lessons, and some on boat tuition, and slowly learnt.
I bought an L17, did some work on her, and then put her in a Marina. The kids love it & my partner tolerates it but can luckily see the future possibilities.

But most of all, the friends that I have taken out sailing are absolutely gob-smacked about how cheap one can acquire and run a boat for if you keep it small.

The L17 is fun, we can leave the marina and return with the minimum of prep, and just enjoy ourselves. But we can also overnight. Yes, it's a bit of a squeeze, but it's not forever. We look upon it as an adventure.

Anyway, I guess the point that I'm trying to get across is not only is there the problem of getting people to spend their income on something other than mass media and magaloof, but there is also a big issue that (imho) the majority of people are not even aware that there are other options.
 
TL;DR so apologies if it's been said.

Was it really that different a generation or two ago? Thirty years ago when stationed in Blandford we had a day out at SIBS. It was a look to see as we had no burning ambition to sail, but at the time it was aspirational. We concluded that we'd never be able to afford it even though I was a Sargeant on fast track to WO if I passed the course I was on and my wife was a teacher. To be fair we never got to looking at the used boat market.

It's also a similar problem in other leisure industries. Thirty years ago most established golf clubs had long waiting lists and high joining fees. Now most are struggling to get members and turn juniors in to long term members. The only joining fees are at the top clubs.

Similarly cricket clubs that I know we're putting out four teams on a weekend now struggle to get two teams. I've heard similar stories with rugby clubs.

I suspect it's to do with there being a wider variety of things for young people to done not just cost.
 
I'm one of the few (relatively) younger keelboat owners in our club at just under 40. We've had a small boat for the last five years and have raced and cruised it regularly. Our family is growing and in the next 3 years or so we hope to upgrade to something around the 30 ish foot mark.

I've had lots of friends along to race and cruise, plenty of whom have far more cash than I do. Not a single one would ever consider owning a boat in the U.K. although some have expressed a desire to get their Day Skipper etc so they can charter. Very few of them would have the skills to work on a secondhand boat, and for those that do, their partners would almost certainly begrudge the time spent.

The exception to this is the other people who like me grew up sailing with their families. There's a group of us (spread far and wide around the UK and Ireland) who raced together on dinghy circuits when we were kids. Our mums and dads had boats, and they did the maintenance themselves. We learned from them and now we all have cheaper second hand boats of varying sizes that we maintain ourselves. Not many are kept in marinas. Some of us are lucky enough that our partners also like the sport.

So in my experience it's possible for younger people to cruise or race relatively affordably, but you need to have the skills / time / dedication / permission from your family to maintain an older boat. For those coming from outside of sailing, that just doesn't seem realistic to most of them, and the whole thing is pretty impenetrable - complex to learn and comes with either a lot of DIY or a lot of expense. Not the most appealing proposition!
 
mrming said:
So in my experience it's possible for younger people to cruise or race relatively affordably ...
Click to expand...

Of course, but the issue is not affordability, it's desire. They just don't want to.

My parents grew up in the hostelling generation of the 40s and 50s. Every Friday night the youth hostel by Lake of Menteith was rammed full of young people who had hiked or cycled from Glasgow. There was a huge ceilidh and then the hostellers fanned out over the Campsies, the Trossachs and Loch Lomond for the weekend.

There is nothing stopping today's students from spending their weekends walking in the hills of Scotland ... but that hostel is long gone, as are three-quarters of the ones my parents knew.

Same with sailing. Many people can buy a small cheap yacht and keep it on a swinging mooring, but few want to. Half the moorings at Port Bannatyne are abandoned.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Of course, but the issue is not affordability, it's desire. They just don't want to.

My parents grew up in the hostelling generation of the 40s and 50s. Every Friday night the youth hostel by Lake of Menteith was rammed full of young people who had hiked or cycled from Glasgow. There was a huge ceilidh and then the hostellers fanned out over the Campsies, the Trossachs and Loch Lomond for the weekend.

There is nothing stopping today's students from spending their weekends walking in the hills of Scotland ... but that hostel is long gone, as are three-quarters of the ones my parents knew.

Same with sailing. Many people can buy a small cheap yacht and keep it on a swinging mooring, but few want to. Half the moorings at Port Bannatyne are abandoned.
Click to expand...

Indeed. The world has changed. It's just us that haven't.
 
jamie N said:
On the Inverness Firth, we've immediate access to the Caledonian Canal, and are directly on some of the best sailing, with Dolphins, seals and the most breathtaking Highland views that can be imagined. My sailing club, Chanonry Sailing Club by the way, has the 3rd largest trot in Scotland, is set in a beautiful village, and the moorings are a 1/4 full; of the moored boats maybe only a 1/3rd of those ever sail anyway! The dinghy section is very active, and is having new members join from the community, but nobody's 'moving on' to cruising boats. The main competition is the nearby Inverness marina, which is very good, but still an hours sailing at least from the good sailing, also 4 times the price, but with an air of convenience, good pontoons and services which attract those whose desire is to own a boat, and sit on it alongside. There's a nearby 'mini-marina' in a drying harbour, where I don't believe that a greater proportion of boats are sailed, Pro-Dave of this parish has more knowledge there than I do.
I'm not sure of my point with this, maybe it's just a malaise of indifference? I don't believe that it's the finances, my sailing costs me a few £/day over the year, and I'm able to walk from home and row to the boat (if the outboard doesn't work!) in 20 minutes, so it's convenient and relatively cheap.
Click to expand...
The issue with the vacant moorings is one of the huge increase in the cost of them recently. I am told it is because they now are forced by H&S law to employ professional divers to service the moorings. It is no longer allowed to get a diving mate to go and have a look on the cheap. I assume this issue is / will affect all clubs providing swing moorings? People have been leaving these moorings for something cheaper. I really feel sorry for the position the club is in. Forced to use professional divers that forces the price up that forces cruisers to look elsewhere.

I am now in Avoch harbour on a pontoon in a drying harbour, a little over half tide access. It's a very sheltered spot but of course you need a boat that can dry out upright, and must accept the tidal constraints. All the berths are taken here (though that does not stop people paying their fee and never putting their boat in the water, making it look like there is space) There are plans afoot to provide more pontoon space here. The pontoons are on the hard, awaiting execution of the plans to put them into service. The habourmaster seems confident he will let them easily.

There are of course still boats here that never sail. Some have never even bent their sails on this year, one has never put his mast up. Some re define Manky Auld Boat (mine probably but at lest I try to keep it clean and sail it)

It's also perhaps telling that most of the boats here are small, plenty of sub 30ft cruisers, several sub 20ft, so it's cheaper places like this that old small boats end up at.

Last point, I am in my 50's and it is rare to see a younger sailor in a cruiser. All the young ones are in dinghies (nothing wrong with that) but you don't see many dinghy sailors "moving up" to a cruiser? Me, I never sailed a dinghy, does not appeal to me. It also amuses me that you can pay more for a small dinghy than I paid for my (okay small) little cruiser. So it's a different sort of sailing. I want a cabin to keep stuff, to have lunch out of the rain, to go for a civilised pee, all things you need if you are going to spend hours on a boat, even for day sailing.
 
Last edited:
Bobc said:
Indeed. The world has changed. It's just us that haven't.
Click to expand...

I used to be involved with an organisation which ran summer camps for children, based on one which ran in the 60s and 70s. The old chap who had founded both simply could not understand why the current incarnation struggled to recruit customers ... it did not occur to him that the weeks he was offering cost substantially more than a child's week in Orlando ...

We've had three wet, windy, awful summers in a row in Scotland. Why the hell do I do it?
 
We had a few grotty summers down south too which I'm sure made a lot of people give up; dare I mention the phrase ' Fair Weather Sailors ' !

But this year has been kind, I and my two relatively newbie chums have had a great time and got a lot of memorable sails in on our various boats, if we'd had been able to organise the time together we would have been all over the Channel and West Country - and our club is flourishing in all departments, dinghy and cruiser - so ' reports of sailing's demise are much exaggerated '.

If we over-advertise the Chay Blythe / John Ridgeway approach with emphasis on beating into cold head winds and seas we might get takers such as Bear Grills & co as an ' extreme sport ' but I'm not sure we want nutters with silly beards and helmet cams everywhere...:)
 
Seajet said:
We had a few grotty summers down south too which I'm sure made a lot of people give up; dare I mention the phrase ' Fair Weather Sailors ' !

But this year has been kind.
Click to expand...

Not for sailing with young children. It has been one of the worst, with wind and temperatures hardly coinciding. I think we've only been out twice, but they were fantastic days.

I think most people have covered the reasons. My observation is that family life seems to revolve much more around the kids these days, rather than the parents in my day. Whatever my parents did, we as children did (which meant sailing/walking etc). With parties, clubs and other commitments of my kids I rarely get a look in at setting the weekend agenda!
 
rwoofer said:
My observation is that family life seems to revolve much more around the kids these days, rather than the parents in my day. Whatever my parents did, we as children did (which meant sailing/walking etc). With parties, clubs and other commitments of my kids I rarely get a look in at setting the weekend agenda!
Click to expand...

Some truth in this. However, my 6yo has four birthday parties to attend this weekend which effectively kills the whole weekend...

So I'm going sailing for 4 days on my own. :D
 
Whenever an activity becomes very popular there will be middlemen that will pop-up between you and the activity to get their cut.

When I bought my first boat, that was it. Free anchoring, free against all quays, free against a pontoon. Then the middlemen arrived. Actually good value at first, but they got greedy. Nowadays there is almost no-where to stop, even for an hour, before a middleman turns up with his hand out. Then the eventual outrage of charging an owner to drop his anchor in a bay that owed NOTHING to man.

This can be seen in places like Greece, where the natural laid back attitude of the Greeks themselves delayed the process. In my experience Greece is the last bastion of carefree sailing and when that falls to the "middleman" as it is doing rapidly there will be very few places left in Europe to Dream about.

The end of sailing will, in my opinion, be because of the increasing greed of the middleman in all its forms. It has been going on since time began, even in Religion, where person had to go through a priest and pay a fee before being allowed to contact God.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Four in mid-September? There must be awful good New Year's parties round your way.
Click to expand...

30 kids in a typical class. Maybe 2 classes in the year. In Infants the standard is usually to invite the whole class ( or at least all the children of the same sex) . Add in a few friends from outside the class and 40-50 parties in the year wouldn't be unusual for a typical 5-7 year old. Take out the holidays that many parents seem to avoid for having parties ( for obvious reasons) and then factor in the bulge of births around September and 4 doesn't seem unusual. My now 9 year old had 3 on one day a couple of years ok. A gaggle of them went from place to place getting collectively more stuffed on sugar and cheap sweets.
 
rwoofer said:
My observation is that family life seems to revolve much more around the kids these days, rather than the parents in my day. Whatever my parents did, we as children did (which meant sailing/walking etc). With parties, clubs and other commitments of my kids I rarely get a look in at setting the weekend agenda!
Click to expand...

I'm doing my best to keep to the old ways :devilish:
 
JumbleDuck said:
Four in mid-September? There must be awful good New Year's parties round your way.
Click to expand...

That is a serious issue for midwives and was in the news only a couple of weeks ago. Big jump in births in September - including a long time ago one of my daughters although she was end September as we had spent a weekend just after Xmas in London before i flew off on a 4 week tour of our Caribbean markets. As one did every January in those days. unfortunately on this trip I picked up some nasty bug in Guyana, the long term effects of which are still with me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top