Sailing end in sight

[jamie N]

On the Inverness Firth, we've immediate access to the Caledonian Canal, and are directly on some of the best sailing, with Dolphins, seals and the most breathtaking Highland views that can be imagined. My sailing club, Chanonry Sailing Club by the way, has the 3rd largest trot in Scotland, is set in a beautiful village, and the moorings are a 1/4 full; of the moored boats maybe only a 1/3rd of those ever sail anyway! The dinghy section is very active, and is having new members join from the community, but nobody's 'moving on' to cruising boats. The main competition is the nearby Inverness marina, which is very good, but still an hours sailing at least from the good sailing, also 4 times the price, but with an air of convenience, good pontoons and services which attract those whose desire is to own a boat, and sit on it alongside. There's a nearby 'mini-marina' in a drying harbour, where I don't believe that a greater proportion of boats are sailed, Pro-Dave of this parish has more knowledge there than I do.
I'm not sure of my point with this, maybe it's just a malaise of indifference? I don't believe that it's the finances, my sailing costs me a few £/day over the year, and I'm able to walk from home and row to the boat (if the outboard doesn't work!) in 20 minutes, so it's convenient and relatively cheap.

 

[STATUE]

I think if you have no sailing freinds or family the younger generation would not even think about it
let's face it there is no sailing programs on the television that I am aware of to get people to think hey I might try that
I would of not of thought about sailing if it wasn't for an ex girlfriends brothers taking me out for the day ever since I have been hooked
Most clubs I have look at joining put me of as to hard to get a membership and I can't afford it and the dress code witch is smart and looks good but I don't own a pair of trousers or a shirt
Hopefully my 2 young daughters will like sailing latter on but at the moment they are more exited with crabbing on the jetty

What's required is a BBC prog. like COAST but focused on the water, with Barry Bucknell showing us how to make a Silhouette from a Hurley DIY pack, or even a Mirror !

 

[johnalison]

What's required is a BBC prog. like COAST but focused on the water, with Barry Bucknell showing us how to make a Silhouette from a Hurley DIY pack, or even a Mirror !

Ordinary cruising virtually never gets a look in, apart from dubious ventures such as David Bumblebee or the Griff. I wonder if other non-competitive branches of sports have the same problem. Horse riding comes to mind but I imagine there are others. The trouble with riding is that they lost the freedom to hack across the country more than a century ago.

Speaking this year to Dutchmen while we were over there, they are also experiencing a drop in numbers of participants in cruising, and most places we visited were quieter than usual for the last ten years. I think the current state of the used boat market tells its own tale.

 

[JumbleDuck]

With the increases in mooring/marina/visitor fees, the suppressed wages of the younger generation and austerity as a whole, are we seeing this decline as the tell tale sign of the end of boating for the ordinary person?
In my harbour there are many many vacant moorings available. If you wanted a mooring ten years ago you had cue on a certain day to get on the list. Now there is no problem.

Twenty or thirty years ago you really had to own a boat to go sailing. Now you don't. You can carter for two weeks a year somewhere far nicer than the UK for the cost of a mid-size annual marina berth - and you escape the hassles of maintenance, insurance and so on as well as getting to sail a nice new-ish boat.

Fewer boats no more indicates less sailing than fewer pianos in houses indicates less listening to music.

 

[JimC]

I agree with most of what's already been said i.e. economics etc. Another factor which I don't think has been mentioned is the deteriorating weather, up here in the NW at any rate. The marina I use is (comparatively) reasonably priced and full of boats many or most of which rarely or never seem to go out. I myself have only been out a few times this year: the conditions outside have so often been cold, wet and windy - totally unappealing unless you're a gung ho merchant or a masochist. I remember it being forecast that for the UK global warming would lead to wetter and windier weather than warmer, that certainly seems to be the case up here.

 

[lw395]

Twenty or thirty years ago you really had to own a boat to go sailing. Now you don't. You can carter for two weeks a year somewhere far nicer than the UK for the cost of a mid-size annual marina berth - and you escape the hassles of maintenance, insurance and so on as well as getting to sail a nice new-ish boat.

Fewer boats no more indicates less sailing than fewer pianos in houses indicates less listening to music.

Some truth in that for sure.
Applies to dinghies too, you can do a beach holiday and have your pick of new boats, then try windsurfing or some other sport.
Also to ocean sailing, you can pay'n'play and do the ARC or Clipper.

I think we should accept it's not the 60's any more. Sailing is not in a boom, it has huge competition from other sports.

Also comparing sailing in Britain last century to sailing in Britain today is a problem. Britain is more multicultural, it's part of europe. Why so parochial? How are participation levels in France or Poland? Britain is not the rich elite corner of the continent these days.

Personally, I'm a member of two clubs, one is doing very well, turning people away due to full dinghy park. Lots of youngsters. The other is OK, steady, could do with more new members but over its many decades of history it's had worse troughs before.

I suspect some facets of sailing will get smaller.
Personally I'm not worried if sailing does not appeal to 98% of the population instead of 95%.
It's still a great sport and one of the few where people in their 60s compete on a level basis with people in their 20s and everywhere between.
And the cruising side will always appeal to some, but not everyone. Maybe at the moment, too many people have camper vans instead, maybe that will change?

 

[mariadz]

As someone who got into sailing less than ten years ago, I'm not sure I completely agree.

Firstly, I think young families sailing has always been quite low and needs one of the parents to have sailed a lot previously to even be considered unless you are like our friends Nicola and John Rodriguez and just go for it! That, combined with the fact that children are likely to have their own lives at the weekend: friends, sports, clubs etc., reduces the opportunity to take the family away nearly every weekend for the summer. Anything less than that could be considered extravagant with the cost of a boat and mooring for just a few weekends a year.

I am surprised that fractional ownership or "borrow-a-boat" schemes haven't been more successful at bringing in younger people who generally have less discretionary spend into the fold. Again the training and experience requirements to keep the family safe has to be a barrier for entry for someone new to sailing.

As the family gets older and the kids start to have their own life, I suspect there is an opportunity for a couple to get into sailing (and that is what happened with Maria and I). We have found it a great interest for the both of us, although I observe a lot of couples where one party is a lot keener than the other, so I recognise how lucky I am to have someone share my passion.

I would also say that there have never been more berths than currently in the UK. In my home port of Ipswich, we have seen a massive increase over the last few in the number of berths at Ipswich Haven which is again nearly full. I suspect that this is the same in the Solent and the gaps are more to do with supply of new berths being ahead of demand rather than an outright reduction in yachts.

My final thought on this is from a perspective of a motorhome owner and we have noticed that motorhomes seem to be very popular right now. I think this is very similar to owning a yacht from a travel and holiday perspective but doesn't have the same upkeep costs or training costs - unless you go a very large motorhome and have passed your test in relatively recent times. I wonder if motorhoming is reducing some of the demand for yachts because it is quite similar but easier to get into?

 

[TangaraToo]

Twenty or thirty years ago you really had to own a boat to go sailing. Now you don't. You can carter for two weeks a year somewhere far nicer than the UK for the cost of a mid-size annual marina berth - and you escape the hassles of maintenance, insurance and so on as well as getting to sail a nice new-ish boat.

I just don't think sailing yachts in the UK appeals to the younger generation.
My son has sailed / raced dinghys. He was very good at it. Only really wanted to sail when there was a good blow.
I've been trying to tempt him to come sailing with me on a very new Jeanneau 389 with some fun sails to play with. To date without success.
He's just returned from a 10 day holiday in Tenerife during which he went sailing on a similar yacht. Slightly put out I asked how come he doesn't come sailing with me. "There it's 37 degrees, I can swim off the boat, explore the wildlife and sealife. Doesn't really compare to sailing on the east coast uk does it." he has a point and sort of says all I need to know.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Twenty or thirty years ago you really had to own a boat to go sailing. Now you don't. You can carter for two weeks a year somewhere far nicer than the UK for the cost of a mid-size annual marina berth - and you escape the hassles of maintenance, insurance and so on as well as getting to sail a nice new-ish boat.

Fewer boats no more indicates less sailing than fewer pianos in houses indicates less listening to music.

This. Also those who do choose to buy can also chose to keep their vessel somewhere warm. I wonder if there are statistics for the number of UK leisure sailers who don't sail in UK waters?

 

[Yellow Ballad]

I've said before, joining fees are outdated and clubs should look at scrapping them. People know they have to pay a membership fee but an aditional joining fee is just a kick in the teeth and not a welcoming thing. More alike joing an elite club, a young family looking to get into sailing in the cheapest form, buying a dinghy (£1000) and gear(£500), insurance (£100), courses (£500) and paying membership fee (£200) (plus the usual key deposit), boat park fees (£100) then being asked to stump up another £50-100 to be accepted is off putting IMO.

People want adventures and experiences, make memories etc, clubs need to reconise this and provide more one day taster sessions to catch new members. There's an understandable resistance to new things (including new members in clubs, mainly from long standing members) but lots of promotion, social media, local papers, open social events.

Possibly put together and "sell" a "new member package" that runs through the year, not just one weekend in the Summer.

1 years membership
Free 1-2-family "start sailing taster" (club tour, basic rigging and launching of the boat, 1 hour sail, etc)
Discounted "family" RYA training
25 hours use of club boats (prebooked) (then rented afterwards to encourage buying their own)

Even if people only do it for a year, thats a years membership the club might not have had and if every other member continues for a second year even better.

*I understand it does require existing members to put in a lot of extra effort (which I can understand people may not have the time)
** I've never been on a sailing club committee so feel free to ignore all of the above.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I just don't think sailing yachts in the UK appeals to the younger generation.

It's not just sailing yachts. There is hardly a seaside resort in the UK - the SW of England excepted - which isn't a miserable shadow of its former self. And why not? Who in their right minds would go to Blackpool, Skegness, Rothesay or Margate when for the same money they could go to the Mediterranean or even further?

 

[TonyBuckley]

I only pop in here once every couple of weeks to see what is happening.

One thing I have noticed (maybe incorrectly - I can't arsed to do any analysis) is that there are fewer posts and responses compared to say five years ago.

Is that another sign of sailing decay with people dropping out and not many new people coming in?

 

[Angele]

This. Also those who do choose to buy can also chose to keep their vessel somewhere warm. I wonder if there are statistics for the number of UK leisure sailers who don't sail in UK waters?

Back in June I did a week's charter with Neilson in the Ionian. 12 boats, with between 2 and 4 people on each. So, over 30 people enjoying a week of sailing in lovely warm weather. I was the only one there who actually owned a boat. (Indeed, some could not comprehend why I would want to go on a charter if I owned a boat or, conversely, why I would want to own a boat when I could charter).

So, there are thousands (tens of thousands?) of people in the UK who participate in the sport, just not in the traditional sense many on here are used to.

 

[Fluvial66]

Having bought my first, and only boat 5 years ago, I am glad that I waited
for retirement, otherwise I could never have devoted the time necessary to
justify the costs of running / keeping my boat.
Its become my life choice for the summer months, gone are the skiing and
diving holidays in order to afford it.
Few youngsters with families, mortgages, student loans and increasing demands
on their time are in a position to take on the associated costs of sailing.

 

[RupertW]

I see large amount amounts of young people skippering and crewing cruisers where I sail. Usually partying until the early hours or dawn all rafted up or dinghys to the beach. And a lot of middle aged couples too having to put up with it by the usual tactic of getting completely sloshed. More boats every year.

That's been the Med experience for us and there are more owner sailers as well as more young charterers. I wouldn't go back to UK saIling even after 25 very happy years doing it. Getting from London to Plymouth is just as long as to Croatia or Greece and sometimes more expensive. Boats are cheaper to buy in the Med even if not cheaper to park.

So the options for those who just want to sail and those who want a boat to fettle (me) are wide and you get a much more reliable season and seas warm enough swim and different kinds of food ashore.

So I would expect UK ownership to decline even if UK participation remains high. I wonder what our marinas would look like if boats were scrappable - I've a 24 footer which I love but is barely used for 7 years in a South Coast marina which I would give away if I could and I doubt I'm alone.

 

[jac]

I'd love it if sailing declined to the point where there are very few moorings cluttering up all the South Coast Harbours and a lot less people around at weekends. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

The only problem with that is the viability of some of the businesses. Go to most busy south coats harbours and there are fuel berths, chandlers, sail makers, engineers etc.

If say 1/2 the boats disappear then does that mean that 1/2 the businesses will? Certainly some will go to the wall. Fine on the hamble if only 1/2 the marinas have chandlers but what if you're in somewhere like Weymouth where there might be no chandlers left,

 

[Mark-1]

I'd love it if sailing declined to the point where there are very few moorings cluttering up all the South Coast Harbours and a lot less people around at weekends. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

The only problem with that is the viability of some of the businesses.

Yup, I'd love it. A lot of other people wouldn't. I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen, though.

 

[Sailfree]

While marinas in the South are mostly full I wonder if another trend is people buying boats on a dream but ra rely using them.

Wonder if the amount of boat use per berth has declined over the years?

 

[Moonbeam]

What's required is a BBC prog. like COAST but focused on the water, with Barry Bucknell showing us how to make a Silhouette from a Hurley DIY pack, or even a Mirror !

As far as I'm concerned that is definitely what is NOT required.

A few years ago, the BBC went nuts about the Lake District with several programmes devoted to the area. My wife an I had, up until then, always spent a week renting a holiday cottage and walking in the Lakes. But after the BBC splurge, the Lakes became more overcrowded than ever and the prices of holiday cottages went through the roof. We have stopped going as a result.

I'm quite happy with sailing having a low profile in the media.

 

[Chris_Robb]

What's required is a BBC prog. like COAST but focused on the water, with Barry Bucknell showing us how to make a Silhouette from a Hurley DIY pack, or even a Mirror !

Is that not the problem - either the younger generation has no time for DIY, or does not do it. This also shows in the declining DIYer at home to. Unless you do DIY then the affordable sailing world is not available to you.