Mogz77
New Member
Hi All, just like to introduce myself, and ask if there is a dinghy group on here ?
Sailing Dinghy.
- Thread starter Mogz77
- Start date
Caraway
Well-Known Member
I think there are a few dingy groups ...
Most people do, or have, sailed dinghies.
Most people do, or have, sailed dinghies.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Wish there was a dedicated dinghy group here...
...lots of contributors delight in discussing their crazy moments in small open boats in the past...
...meanwhile, the cost and scale of any work required by the same chaps' current, big boats, seems to make them understandably doleful by comparison.
I've had a yacht and I'm back in the dinghy now, and not sorry at the moment. I recommend asking any dinghy question you like - plenty of ballasted gentlemen will bounce forward to reply.
What's your boat?
...lots of contributors delight in discussing their crazy moments in small open boats in the past...
...meanwhile, the cost and scale of any work required by the same chaps' current, big boats, seems to make them understandably doleful by comparison.
I've had a yacht and I'm back in the dinghy now, and not sorry at the moment. I recommend asking any dinghy question you like - plenty of ballasted gentlemen will bounce forward to reply.
What's your boat?
MADRIGAL
Well-Known Member
Welcome aboard, Moggz77. There are definitely a few of us dinghy sailors on the forum, and quite a few with vessels in the 20- to 25-foot range who seem to share (or at least understand) some of our questions.
As dancrane says in the previous post, many yacht owners have a past in small open boats and have much experience to share. Besides that, depending upon what sort of sailing you do and where you do it, you might find that we share many of the same experiences with our longer, more beamy fleet mates.
A New Zealander wrote a book about dinghy sailing called The Biggest Boat I Could Afford, which I think says it all!
As dancrane says in the previous post, many yacht owners have a past in small open boats and have much experience to share. Besides that, depending upon what sort of sailing you do and where you do it, you might find that we share many of the same experiences with our longer, more beamy fleet mates.
A New Zealander wrote a book about dinghy sailing called The Biggest Boat I Could Afford, which I think says it all!
Chae_73
Well-Known Member
Just bought a dinghy again after several decades. Bloody thing tips up a lot more than I remember! ?
I'm hoping I can get the teenage kids sailing in it. A lot quicker (easier?) to learn that way than in a 5 tonne keel boat, I'm hoping.
I'm hoping I can get the teenage kids sailing in it. A lot quicker (easier?) to learn that way than in a 5 tonne keel boat, I'm hoping.
Caraway
Well-Known Member
You maybe don't remenber being 'more bulky' or being less agile. I found a Solo at 60 was a recipe for a dunking at least every other trip out.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
My Osprey is vast for singlehanding - borderline uncontrollable if it's blowing over 12 knots, if I haven't shortened sail substantially...
...but when I tried a Europe (once the women's Olympic singlehander) it felt like a soap-dish - a round-bottomed bowl that rolled alarmingly in short waves compared with the big steady Osprey, plus I slid around in the flat 'ergonomic' cockpit like soap in the dish.
Actually that's my mate in the little Europe...I was in the Osprey, filming while I steered, and it's obvious how much steadier the bigger boat was. It's also further ahead of the Europe at the end of the clip, than at the start, despite me watching what I was filming!
People will tell new starters not to buy too big a dinghy, and if they intend to race, that is prudent because they will always be at their limit. But if they just want a nice comfortable boat that goes well, is predictable, spacious, looks great and allows a bit of dry stowage, a bigger detuned dinghy is a great way to experience what's possible.
Old two-man racing dinghies (assuming they're not actually damaged) are particularly appealing, being really cheap...because they're unlikely to win against newer examples that have had costly refits. The old ones can still be very good sound boats.
...but when I tried a Europe (once the women's Olympic singlehander) it felt like a soap-dish - a round-bottomed bowl that rolled alarmingly in short waves compared with the big steady Osprey, plus I slid around in the flat 'ergonomic' cockpit like soap in the dish.
Actually that's my mate in the little Europe...I was in the Osprey, filming while I steered, and it's obvious how much steadier the bigger boat was. It's also further ahead of the Europe at the end of the clip, than at the start, despite me watching what I was filming!
People will tell new starters not to buy too big a dinghy, and if they intend to race, that is prudent because they will always be at their limit. But if they just want a nice comfortable boat that goes well, is predictable, spacious, looks great and allows a bit of dry stowage, a bigger detuned dinghy is a great way to experience what's possible.
Old two-man racing dinghies (assuming they're not actually damaged) are particularly appealing, being really cheap...because they're unlikely to win against newer examples that have had costly refits. The old ones can still be very good sound boats.
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dunedin
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the forum.
Is your interest in dinghy cruising / pottering or racing (there may be better fora for the latter)?
The issue with bigger / heavier two.man dinghies, if sailing solo, is that one medium sized person may be too light to right them in a stiff breeze if capsize. Fine if crewed as designed
Is your interest in dinghy cruising / pottering or racing (there may be better fora for the latter)?
Old two-man racing dinghies (assuming they're not actually damaged) are particularly appealing, being really cheap...because they're unlikely to win against newer examples that have had costly refits. The old ones can still be very good sound boats.
The issue with bigger / heavier two.man dinghies, if sailing solo, is that one medium sized person may be too light to right them in a stiff breeze if capsize. Fine if crewed as designed
MADRIGAL
Well-Known Member
While anyone can capsize given enough bad luck, a bigger dinghy may be more stable, even when sailed solo. Much depends on the design too, with a hard-chined hull being much stiffer in a breeze. The ability to shorten sail is, I think, vital. Can you reef your mainsail? Will she sail well under main alone? Of course you could always increase moveable ballast by putting on a stone or two.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I reckon it's largely a matter of approach. The singlehander who goes out in a boat designed for two, will be wise to take precautions.
I tie a float to the Osprey's masthead, and have fitted 'righting lines' to the gunwale that enable me to stand at the very end of the centreboard, leaning back to increase the righting effect when knocked-down. As far as I've seen, most two-handed race boats nevertheless rely on only one chap on the centreboard when there's a knock-down.
But it's true, the singlehander who launches an unmodified two-man boat in a moderate breeze, can be sure of being overpowered or frustrated. Preparation is the key.
Very few racing classes offer mainsails with reefing arrangements, but fitting reef-points or using a smaller than standard mainsail, plus a roller-jib or genoa, will dramatically tame a boat that is technically impossible to singlehand in a breeze.
Pity my halved mainsail isn't visible in this poor pic...it was gusting 18 knots. I had a cup of coffee, unspilled, on the floor.
Racing crews, bless 'em, are apt to be scornful of such standard seamanlike measures as reefing, in a dinghy. That's unfortunate (and deserves to be ignored) because there's a huge amount of fun to be had...
...as Madrigal remarked, a big dinghy with reduced sail rides more easily in rough water than a hard-pressed una-rigged boat that is deemed ideal for the singlehander. And in lighter winds, racers will be overtaken by 'cruising' boats carrying full sail whilst not burdened by the weight of two crew.
Retrofitting the versatility of a cruising-boat's reefing to a racing dinghy, greatly broadens the range of its use. It's fun.
Of course, not one word of that will interest Mogz77, if he's asking about getting into racing. But this isn't a racing forum.
.
I tie a float to the Osprey's masthead, and have fitted 'righting lines' to the gunwale that enable me to stand at the very end of the centreboard, leaning back to increase the righting effect when knocked-down. As far as I've seen, most two-handed race boats nevertheless rely on only one chap on the centreboard when there's a knock-down.
But it's true, the singlehander who launches an unmodified two-man boat in a moderate breeze, can be sure of being overpowered or frustrated. Preparation is the key.
Very few racing classes offer mainsails with reefing arrangements, but fitting reef-points or using a smaller than standard mainsail, plus a roller-jib or genoa, will dramatically tame a boat that is technically impossible to singlehand in a breeze.
Pity my halved mainsail isn't visible in this poor pic...it was gusting 18 knots. I had a cup of coffee, unspilled, on the floor.
Racing crews, bless 'em, are apt to be scornful of such standard seamanlike measures as reefing, in a dinghy. That's unfortunate (and deserves to be ignored) because there's a huge amount of fun to be had...
...as Madrigal remarked, a big dinghy with reduced sail rides more easily in rough water than a hard-pressed una-rigged boat that is deemed ideal for the singlehander. And in lighter winds, racers will be overtaken by 'cruising' boats carrying full sail whilst not burdened by the weight of two crew.
Retrofitting the versatility of a cruising-boat's reefing to a racing dinghy, greatly broadens the range of its use. It's fun.
Of course, not one word of that will interest Mogz77, if he's asking about getting into racing. But this isn't a racing forum.
.
doug748
Well-Known Member
While anyone can capsize given enough bad luck, a bigger dinghy may be more stable, even when sailed solo. Much depends on the design too, with a hard-chined hull being much stiffer in a breeze. The ability to shorten sail is, I think, vital. Can you reef your mainsail? Will she sail well under main alone? Of course you could always increase moveable ballast by putting on a stone or two.
This would suit me, always fancied a Cat Boat:
Com-Pac Sun Cat sailing boat with trailer | eBay
A dinghy, of sorts, with a bit of comfort.
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Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Very nice, Doug. But by no stretch of the imagination a dinghy, surely? She's nearly three quarters of a tonne. 
doug748
Well-Known Member
No real ballast to speak of. Here is one of the general type at the limit of it's performance envelope ?
:
.
:.
MADRIGAL
Well-Known Member
I have just ordered a new mainsail with a second set of reef points and heavier-weight sailcloth. The ability to reef well down is an added safety measure if the winds pick up when your dinghy is in open water. My current arrangement is to roll the sail around the boom if more than one reef is needed, but your boat has to be set up for this. This was the standard arrangement when Ian Proctor designed her in 1957, but requires a reefing claw (which I don’t have) if you want to attach the kicking strap.I reckon it's largely a matter of approach. The singlehander who goes out in a boat designed for two, will be wise to take precautions.
I tie a float to the Osprey's masthead, and have fitted 'righting lines' to the gunwale that enable me to stand at the very end of the centreboard, leaning back to increase the righting effect when knocked-down. As far as I've seen, most two-handed race boats nevertheless rely on only one chap on the centreboard when there's a knock-down.
But it's true, the singlehander who launches an unmodified two-man boat in a moderate breeze, can be sure of being overpowered or frustrated. Preparation is the key.
Very few racing classes offer mainsails with reefing arrangements, but fitting reef-points or using a smaller than standard mainsail, plus a roller-jib or genoa, will dramatically tame a boat that is technically impossible to singlehand in a breeze.
Pity my halved mainsail isn't visible in this poor pic...it was gusting 18 knots. I had a cup of coffee, unspilled, on the floor.
Racing crews, bless 'em, are apt to be scornful of such standard seamanlike measures as reefing, in a dinghy. That's unfortunate (and deserves to be ignored) because there's a huge amount of fun to be had...
...as Madrigal remarked, a big dinghy with reduced sail rides more easily in rough water than a hard-pressed una-rigged boat that is deemed ideal for the singlehander. And in lighter winds, racers will be overtaken by 'cruising' boats carrying full sail whilst not burdened by the weight of two crew.
Retrofitting the versatility of a cruising-boat's reefing to a racing dinghy, greatly broadens the range of its use. It's fun.
Of course, not one word of that will interest Mogz77, if he's asking about getting into racing. But this isn't a racing forum.
.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Hmm, 91kg in a 700kg hull is decidedly light. I reckon that video may not be the design's best advertisement! Having set up my books and barometer on the shelf and my Chablis and cold collation on the berth, I believe I'd rather the cabin stayed dry!
Damn right. It ought to be considered a basic necessity. I suppose it is left to individuals to apply reefing arrangements, rather than these being 'factory' options, because of the presumption that dinghies will usually be inshore and attended by safety boats.
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ianat182
Well-Known Member
You may already have a sailing dinghy, perhaps one of the more general types like GP14,Wayfarer and Wanderer or even the Mirror dinghy. With larger dinghies a furling jib and even single line reefing becomes a good option when the wind picks up and makes single handing easier to berth ,or increase sail area when the wind lightens.
Much of the enjoyment comes from having a reliable crew, and of course your own ability to read the wind, lifts and gusts and adjusting crew, sails and dinghy to the best balance for those conditions.
Membership of a sailing club does help , and often provides a pool of available crew and practical advice. Copying a successful method used by a winning helsman is a matter of fact and often pased on by them.
Capsizing is the least of concerns, provided the correct method for your type of dinghy has been described, and even better done in convenient and calmer conditions, it then becomes more of a nuisance than a worry. Choice of dinghy and those three mentioned are good options for club racing and later a Nationals possibility.
Your sailing area also will have a bearing on your choice as also will your wallet , being able to park your dinghy in a safe club
compound will make sailing much easier but of course will incur a charge for this.
My own dinghy history was National12, Merlin Rocket MK9, Way farer , Later a 25ft Westerly Tiger for 33years great boat too!
Good luck with your choice and welcome to the forum here.
ianat182
Much of the enjoyment comes from having a reliable crew, and of course your own ability to read the wind, lifts and gusts and adjusting crew, sails and dinghy to the best balance for those conditions.
Membership of a sailing club does help , and often provides a pool of available crew and practical advice. Copying a successful method used by a winning helsman is a matter of fact and often pased on by them.
Capsizing is the least of concerns, provided the correct method for your type of dinghy has been described, and even better done in convenient and calmer conditions, it then becomes more of a nuisance than a worry. Choice of dinghy and those three mentioned are good options for club racing and later a Nationals possibility.
Your sailing area also will have a bearing on your choice as also will your wallet , being able to park your dinghy in a safe club
compound will make sailing much easier but of course will incur a charge for this.
My own dinghy history was National12, Merlin Rocket MK9, Way farer , Later a 25ft Westerly Tiger for 33years great boat too!
Good luck with your choice and welcome to the forum here.
ianat182
ProDave
Well-Known Member
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Buy one? Maybe, if you're comparing old with new. But maintain, insure and berth it? Very doubtful.
I bought the Osprey because it was as big as I could afford, and in my mind, as close to a yacht. She was £350. ?
Who'd have thought, eight years on, I would have bought, berthed, sailed and sold a yacht, and be back on the Osprey.
Yacht costs are a different league from dinghies. Terrific if you have a modest drying mooring, but those are not plentiful everywhere.
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Refueler
Well-Known Member
Learnt to sail in an Enterprise ...... wish I had one now.
I do look on eBay and various online sites for Mirrors / Enterprise / RNSA's ... but trouble now is if I buy one in UK and bring back here - Customs and Duty will be on book value ... should have bought earlier !
Someone mentioned capsize in a two man as a single user ... when I raced the GP14's for Plymouth Maritime College - we had to get Day Sailer cert's and this meant capsize routine. We were taught that one man on the board and line to pull boat upright - other man to 'roll' into boat as it righted. So why the comment about one man in a two man boat ?
I do look on eBay and various online sites for Mirrors / Enterprise / RNSA's ... but trouble now is if I buy one in UK and bring back here - Customs and Duty will be on book value ... should have bought earlier !
Someone mentioned capsize in a two man as a single user ... when I raced the GP14's for Plymouth Maritime College - we had to get Day Sailer cert's and this meant capsize routine. We were taught that one man on the board and line to pull boat upright - other man to 'roll' into boat as it righted. So why the comment about one man in a two man boat ?
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
To be fair, a bigger dinghy is a bigger problem to right after capsize.
Wish I had a photo of me standing ineffectually on my centreboard after capsizing, five years ago last June.
Back then I had no masthead float and no righting lines, and I didn't dare stand further from the gunwale than I could reach. I was surprised how inert she seemed for a long time, even with only a few feet of mast immersed. It felt like I wasn't on the centreboard at all.
I think turning turtle would be beyond independent recovery for me, hence the masthead float now. Just on her side, the boat initially felt immovable. There was no sense that she'd pivot easily on her longitudinal axis and bob obligingly upwards. It was hard work.
I believe that with righting lines attached, and me leaning back much further out on the centreboard, the righting moment would improve a lot. Even without, the boat eventually came upright.
But I'm not especially keen to practice it. ?
Wish I had a photo of me standing ineffectually on my centreboard after capsizing, five years ago last June.
Back then I had no masthead float and no righting lines, and I didn't dare stand further from the gunwale than I could reach. I was surprised how inert she seemed for a long time, even with only a few feet of mast immersed. It felt like I wasn't on the centreboard at all.
I think turning turtle would be beyond independent recovery for me, hence the masthead float now. Just on her side, the boat initially felt immovable. There was no sense that she'd pivot easily on her longitudinal axis and bob obligingly upwards. It was hard work.
I believe that with righting lines attached, and me leaning back much further out on the centreboard, the righting moment would improve a lot. Even without, the boat eventually came upright.
But I'm not especially keen to practice it. ?
