Sailing around the world on a budget

[lustyd]

Musk and other billionaires make the average way higher than it actually is, that’s how averages work. Much of the US is in abject poverty and couldn’t even imagine such a lifestyle or often even feed their family.
None of this is choice. People scraping by are not making mistakes, they’re trapped.
I’m not bitching because I’m unsuccessful, I’m acknowledging a broken system. I’m at (or was) the very top of UK earners and absolutely understand how the system works. I’ve even worked with some “OKR coaches” in global tech organisations. I don’t want to attack them, they’re very lucky and we should all be envious, but they are there through privilege and hopefully they know that, especially if they’re in the islands and meeting less fortunate folk. I’m sure they do, I know nothing else about them.

 

[Sea Change]

I don't know why everybody is talking about the US, when the family whose blog I linked are Israeli. But hey ho, if we all actually read what was posted then we'd probably have fewer arguments and the forum would be a very dull place.

As to the relevance of a $70k/yr family, I simply mentioned them because most people don't bother to share their costs, so it's a useful real world data point. And they are not in any way unrepresentative of cruising families.
At the other end of the scale, we have friends on a 35ft steel boat, who stop and work for a few months at a time, who do all their own just work and never fly home.

It's a broad church.

 

[Tranona]

It's a broad church.

Exactly. When I stopped work in 2011 at the age of 66 the boat was paid for, mortgage cleared and sufficient secure income to maintain a comfortable lifestyle afloat at much the same level in terms of discretionary expenditure as when we were both working. Pity the body did not have the same resilience!

Many people of my generation were/are in similar positions although of course few choose cruising as a way of filling those 5-15 years of active life post work.

 

[steve yates]

Most couples don’t even earn that, let alone spend it. To spend £55k you have to earn £100k. People on £100k are the top 1% of earners. Not wealthy, just earnings. Wealthy folk “earn” way less for tax reasons.
Most couples will have a combined income of maybe 40-50k which will necessitate spending of 20-25k

Most couples dont buy boats and go off cruising in the Caribbean!
However, on the contrary, I think most couples spend pretty much everything they earn after tax, hence why the ave uk family is only two pay cheques away from homelessness.( and thats caught in the trap, not necessarily greed or laziness or any other vice often bandied
about) I agree its a lot of money, and it may not be “the norm”, but it is for a great deal of people, and they are not the 1%!
Between them, all three of my kids with their partners earn around that after tax, they are 22,26 and 28, and only one of them, the youngest, hits the higher tax bracket. ( Incodentally, irrelevant but interesting, hes the only one with no university degree, did an apprenticeship and has no student debt)

To spend 55k as a couple requires £27k after tax, so £35k gross. Nowhere near 100k.

Personally, if I was spending 55k a year, whether at home or cruising, I would be really concerned, not to mention skint!

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

To be honest I was only interested in the figures which obviously were in $ and not the story, hence the US assumption which i suppose isn't too far fetched considering its their favourite cruising ground. none the less i hold up my hands on that one.

I could do $70k if i were remote working at my current job, but im fkd if i'm being called "privileged" because I managed to work my way up from bugger all and still saved and invested.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

To be honest I was only interested in the figures which obviously were in $ and not the story, hence the US assumption which i suppose isn't too far fetched considering its their favourite cruising ground. none the less i hold up my hands on that one.

I could do $70k if i were remote working at my current job, but im fkd if i'm being called "privileged" because I managed to work my way up from bugger all and still saved and invested.

Then your fkd, because you are privileged. There are folks in a certain MENA region that are just as capable of you, but they don't have significant privilege, likewise, there are folks in the UK just as capable as you, but are excluded. It is not just to do with your skills, effort or work ethics (although important) it is also a fact of circumstances.

 

[DownWest]

Going back to cruising cheaply... Annie Hill's 'Voyaging on a Small Income' is a good read.

One of the differences from Shrimpie' and others now is the world is more geared up to the 'business' of yachting. Back then, people were interested and helped out, even feted for their adventures.
Plus, working your way round is more tricky, with countries clamping down on casual workers, not in their tax system.

Then there is health. Getting ill in places can seriously damage your savings... How do insurance companies view cruisers?

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

Then your fkd, because you are privileged. There are folks in a certain MENA region that are just as capable of you, but they don't have significant privilege, likewise, there are folks in the UK just as capable as you, but are excluded. It is not just to do with your skills, effort or work ethics (although important) it is also a fact of circumstances.

Not my problem.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Not my problem.

Count care less. Interesting how you deny your privilege and dismiss others lack of privilege, and dis the UK.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

Count care less. Interesting how you deny your privilege and dismiss others lack of privilege, and dis the UK.

or maybe you should spout your politics in a guardian forum and stop infecting everyone else with your world view? just a thought.

 

[BobnLesley]

It's not and never was 'about the boat', crews make the passages/cross oceans, boats are just the tools they use to make them in.
Cruising budgets are fairly elastic, ours varied significantly during different periods of the 17 years we were afloat and while changes in circumstance effected how we did/saw things, I don't recall that having much effect on what we did, nor on how much we enjoyed ourselves doing them. In addition the international cruising community is very much a meritocracy, it doesn't suffer from the same 'who's got the newest/shiniest toys?' attitude that you find in the Solent/Long Island Sound, not does anyone care that you were once the CEO of whomever.
Delaying departure until you can afford the 'right' boat and/or put a bit more money into the cruising kitty is one of the most popular excuses of those who'd rather talk about/plan their big adventure than actually go out and live it.
Holding off until you retire presupposes that you'll still be healthy enough to make the trip; with the best will in the world, you will not be as fit/strong as you were twenty years earlier and even that will make the task harder and more expensive.
Whatever your goal/destination, you'll be well over halfway there in the moment that you drop your dock lines and set sail; how could it be otherwise when 90% of those who talk the talk will never get any further than that.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

or maybe you should spout your politics in a guardian forum and stop infecting everyone else with your world view? just a thought.

Yet you can spout your opinions, infecting everyone else with your world view? Funny old world isn’t it, where only your point of view, on a forum, is to be considered valid.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

Yet you can spout your opinions, infecting everyone else with your world view? Funny old world isn’t it, where only your point of view, on a forum, is to be considered valid.

you do realise this is a sailing forum, by its very nature is a little expensive to some, and the discussion is generally around costs and lifestyles. if people can afford it good for them and if not, well thats the world we live in. many people do it on different budgets and thats ok. for you and your buddy to bang on a muh privilege has nothing to do with this thread. im not spounting any opinion, i was trying to understand a $70k per year lifestyle, which upon further information is understandable.

 

[benjenbav]

Going back to cruising cheaply... Annie Hill's 'Voyaging on a Small Income' is a good read.

One of the differences from Shrimpie' and others now is the world is more geared up to the 'business' of yachting. Back then, people were interested and helped out, even feted for their adventures.
Plus, working your way round is more tricky, with countries clamping down on casual workers, not in their tax system.

Then there is health. Getting ill in places can seriously damage your savings... How do insurance companies view cruisers?

The needs for comfort and a safety net have perhaps grown as yachting has become bigger business.

Blondie Hasler’s famous reply on what he would do if overwhelmed at sea with no means of contacting shore: “I would die like a gentleman” sounds very strange to a 21st century ear.

 

[Stemar]

Blondie Hasler’s famous reply on what he would do if overwhelmed at sea with no means of contacting shore: “I would die like a gentleman” sounds very strange to a 21st century ear.

Yet, if we found ourselves in the same situation, we'd have no more choice than he had. Die like a gentleman, or die screaming like a coward. And, in the end, it makes no difference.

 

[benjenbav]

Yet, if we found ourselves in the same situation, we'd have no more choice than he had. Die like a gentleman, or die screaming like a coward. And, in the end, it makes no difference.

Wouldn’t the modern sailor activate their PLB, EPIRB or call via VHF or Satphone or Starlink etc?

As to the manner of dying itself, it may, indeed, make no difference. But so little of our living makes a difference either.

 

[benjenbav]

It's not and never was 'about the boat', crews make the passages/cross oceans, boats are just the tools they use to make them in.
Cruising budgets are fairly elastic, ours varied significantly during different periods of the 17 years we were afloat and while changes in circumstance effected how we did/saw things, I don't recall that having much effect on what we did, nor on how much we enjoyed ourselves doing them. In addition the international cruising community is very much a meritocracy, it doesn't suffer from the same 'who's got the newest/shiniest toys?' attitude that you find in the Solent/Long Island Sound, not does anyone care that you were once the CEO of whomever.
Delaying departure until you can afford the 'right' boat and/or put a bit more money into the cruising kitty is one of the most popular excuses of those who'd rather talk about/plan their big adventure than actually go out and live it.
Holding off until you retire presupposes that you'll still be healthy enough to make the trip; with the best will in the world, you will not be as fit/strong as you were twenty years earlier and even that will make the task harder and more expensive.
Whatever your goal/destination, you'll be well over halfway there in the moment that you drop your dock lines and set sail; how could it be otherwise when 90% of those who talk the talk will never get any further than that.

Interesting - especially the “excessive planning to put off doing” point.

I’m sure that’s right but I wonder why it should be so?

I think that folk are generally quite poor at self-knowledge, inasmuch as they honestly believe they want to do something (whatever that may be) and don’t recognise - at least at a conscious level - that they are putting obstacles in their own way.

 

[John_Silver]

Interesting - especially the “excessive planning to put off doing” point.

I’m sure that’s right but I wonder why it should be so?

I think that folk are generally quite poor at self-knowledge, inasmuch as they honestly believe they want to do something (whatever that may be) and don’t recognise - at least at a conscious level - that they are putting obstacles in their own way.

…..OR, that subconscious can work t’other way round……egging you on, instead of holding you back……In my late forties, I took a one year career sabbatical, which, 14 years later, is still going strong…..

This turn of events surprised me, but not those close to me.

 

[capnsensible]

It's not and never was 'about the boat', crews make the passages/cross oceans, boats are just the tools they use to make them in.
Cruising budgets are fairly elastic, ours varied significantly during different periods of the 17 years we were afloat and while changes in circumstance effected how we did/saw things, I don't recall that having much effect on what we did, nor on how much we enjoyed ourselves doing them. In addition the international cruising community is very much a meritocracy, it doesn't suffer from the same 'who's got the newest/shiniest toys?' attitude that you find in the Solent/Long Island Sound, not does anyone care that you were once the CEO of whomever.
Delaying departure until you can afford the 'right' boat and/or put a bit more money into the cruising kitty is one of the most popular excuses of those who'd rather talk about/plan their big adventure than actually go out and live it.
Holding off until you retire presupposes that you'll still be healthy enough to make the trip; with the best will in the world, you will not be as fit/strong as you were twenty years earlier and even that will make the task harder and more expensive.
Whatever your goal/destination, you'll be well over halfway there in the moment that you drop your dock lines and set sail; how could it be otherwise when 90% of those who talk the talk will never get any further than that.

Spot on. Nailed it completely!

 

[Stemar]

Reading through all this reminds me of the old saying: Money can't buy happiness, but is can sure provide you with a better class of misery. Some people can do without all sorts of stuff and be completely happy, others can have the washing machine and still be grumpy that their boat doesn't have space for a dishwasher - and that's before they've even left the Solent!

I'll never sail across oceans, I'm not fit enough any more, and health insurance for me is prohibitive. Besides, Madame's comfortable distance is a couple of hours. If I want to go to France, that's fine, she'll take the ferry across and meet me there.

I've missed my chance, if I ever really had one, but for those who haven't, ISTM that it all comes down to the first line of the first post of the thread - "Go small, go simple, but go now"