Sailing Apprenticeship Scheme

[toad_oftoadhall]

It is no different from hiring a car at Heathrow and leaving it in Glasgow at the end of the hire period. Charter Co's give discounts for doing this and give a lax time schedule. (There is plenty of time for leisure sailing.)

It's still a delivery, lax time schedule or not.

Incidently, there are Charter firms (and other firms) that charge you to take one of their boats from Europe to the Caribean for the winter and back.

That is not what I say at all! I am simply saying that if you make a profit from anyones labours then they deserve some of it.

I don't think that follows but lets assume it does. Does that share of the 'profit' have to be made in cash? Or can it be paid in goods and services?

Supposing the OP was running a coal delivery service. At the end of the delivery he gives his 'student coal deliverer' 10pc of the coal. I reckon you'd be cool with that? Imagine instead he's delivering another commodity. Sailing. It can't be traded but it has value.

Effectively the OP is saying "Yes, I'll share my profit with you, but I will pay your share to you in the form of some free sailing.". Sailing has value, we all pay to do it one way or another.

So how do you feel like someone like Tilman? He gave people free sailing. He then wrote books on the trips and got some income. I've no idea if there was profit but lets imagine there was. What's the problem?

The fact that they enjoy the job is irrelevant.

Well yes, if you don't accept that supply and demand are factors in determining the reward for employment then enjoyment/job satisfaction are irrelevant. However in reality people WILL require less reward for doing something they love and you'd find it very hard to find a workable system that would take that factor out.



I really cannot see any logical reason to object to the OP offering some free sailing. I also cannot see any logical reason to object to someone taking that offer. (Even if they are overqualified.)

So RinC. Imagine there's a boat you'd really like to sail. And a journey by boat you'd really like to do. It just so happens the OP is getting paid to do a delivery of that yacht on that passage. He offers you the chance to go along free. Would you really turn him down? If not would you really want to deprive anyone else of the same chance?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Simon,

thanks, no worries, I get carried away too !

I do feel strongly about talented young people being ripped off while responsible for lives and valuable hardware though, I can't help thinking of a charachter from Dickens, & Thatcher jointly shoving a youngster up a chimney !

Well frankly in the unlikely event that there was someone so keen to sweep chimneys that's they'd do it for nothing I would wouldn't stand in their way. Would you?

 

[BruceDanforth]

It's particularly hard work running a small business in these recessionary times. Pete should be applauded for trying to find innovative and cost-effective ways of keeping his business going.
And I think that using these forums to sound out new ideas is a brilliant opportunity for all of us to help with constructive comments - so well done those of you who have!

Perhaps the indoctrinees could sign a form agreeing to have the snot thrashed out of them if it it is necessary to maintain an image of discipline as per the old days of the RYS?

 

[Talulah]

OOI .. Did you tell applicants that you would post their vid on the Forum? And ask strangers for their thoughts?

Thanks for your concern; All applicants have been asked to sign a contract allowing the unlimited use of their videos.

I would be uncomfortable doing this. Even though you have a contract allowing unlimited use I suspect the applicant did not have this in mind. What happened to confidentiality of applications?

What about applicants who want to apply, want to send in a video but are put off by the 'public' use of the video. By posting on YouTube you have assigned rights to YouTube in the use of the video. Personally, I find this unethical.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I would be uncomfortable doing this. Even though you have a contract allowing unlimited use I suspect the applicant did not have this in mind.

+1

A bit out of order unless she specifically agreed to it going on youtube for discussion on a forum.

(Having said that, I watched it!)

 

[Retired in Crete]

I don't think that follows but lets assume it does. Does that share of the 'profit' have to be made in cash? Or can it be paid in goods and services?

Supposing the OP was running a coal delivery service. At the end of the delivery he gives his 'student coal deliverer' 10pc of the coal. I reckon you'd be cool with that?

Imagine instead he's delivering another commodity. Sailing. It can't be traded but it has value.

The BIG FLAW with your argument is that "benefits in kind" are taxable! Not only would the "apprentice" not get paid but she could end up with a large tax bill.

So RinC. Imagine there's a boat you'd really like to sail. And a journey by boat you'd really like to do. It just so happens the OP is getting paid to do a delivery of that yacht on that passage. He offers you the chance to go along free. Would you really turn him down? If not would you really want to deprive anyone else of the same chance?

If it was "the chance to go along free" I would accept with no obligation to work. If I was expected to stand lone watches etc I would expect some remuneration for my assistance and accepting responsibility.

I sincerly believe that if you are worthy of being hired you are worthy of being paid (and particularly in the case of youngsters starting out)

John

 

[grazbo]

My only concern is the transparency and honesty of the offer.

If the offer is "We are sailing a long passage and we'll take videos and post them on the internet to help my business - wanna come for free ?", then that is all good. Why not ?

Anything else is hiding something IMHO

 

[Seajet]

Well frankly in the unlikely event that there was someone so keen to sweep chimneys that's they'd do it for nothing I would wouldn't stand in their way. Would you?

Toad,

who might be so keen to get stuffed up a chimney - or for that matter give their qualified sailing skills, risking their own and other lives they are responsible for, for free ? It could be a Swan or a Snapdragon, but I'd hope to be part of a professional outfit and rewarded for my abilities & hard won qualifications, not used for free ' your reward is another few miles in your personal log ', this wasn't accepted even in the days of the Cutty Sark !

 

[Long John Silver]

Toad,

who might be so keen to get stuffed up a chimney - or for that matter give their qualified sailing skills, risking their own and other lives they are responsible for, for free ? It could be a Swan or a Snapdragon, but I'd hope to be part of a professional outfit and rewarded for my abilities & hard won qualifications, not used for free ' your reward is another few miles in your personal log ', this wasn't accepted even in the days of the Cutty Sark !

I guess we should close down all charities then. Plenty of people risk far more when setting out on a lifeboat than they do going on a yacht delivery.

 

[Magaz97]

The BIG FLAW with your argument is that "benefits in kind" are taxable! Not only would the "apprentice" not get paid but she could end up with a large tax bill.



If it was "the chance to go along free" I would accept with no obligation to work. If I was expected to stand lone watches etc I would expect some remuneration for my assistance and accepting responsibility.

I sincerly believe that if you are worthy of being hired you are worthy of being paid (and particularly in the case of youngsters starting out)

John

Meanwhile, back in the real world..........