Sailing across the channel

[Lucky Duck]

True, but is your French good enough to convince a demented HM of that, when his wife has given him a PMT bashing in the morning, and he has had problems with "idiotic Englishmen" not following his harbour's rules all day?

Good luck with that, on the other hand, maybe he will admire the Plucky English & admire their spirit & give them a bottle fo wine. Trouble is that you don't know which HM you will find until he reveals his mood!

It also assumes that you are able to make ANY harbour at all against a foul tide & falling breeze as the light fades . . . . & you face a night at anchor - 3 in a small over canvassed open dinghy.

As I said initially. Great trip if everything goes well - how often in real life does EVERYTHING go well?

I rest my case. Sure, hope for the best, but FFS, do plan for the worst. And the worst case could easily be a fatal outcome.

One club Wayfarer has made it as far Calais and if they fell foul of local regulations they have glossed over it when recounting their travels However as has been pointed out before two experianced sailors undertaking the trip in a suitably equipped boat is a world away from what the OP proposes.

As an aside the only time anybody has been interested in the ship's papers was so they could write down the length on the certificate of registry and bill us accordingly!

 

[BrianH]

I'm all for initiative and adventure but I just can't believe those cheering the OP on with this absurd endeavour.

Of course in benign conditions it is quite doable but that isn't the point. Open sea conditions in such a craft when the weather changes can be catastrophic, as anyone knows who sails offshore. Small problems occur and then escalate, we've all seen it - Murphy is always with us.

With reference to the Wayfarer. In my youth I used to sail and race one out of Whitby, often single-handed. Once I participated in a club race round an off-shore oil rig with it and had to reef when close to the mark - I was very comforted when a small cruiser stood by as I did so, the likelihood of getting swamped from the building wave-crests was very real.

On another occasion I was capsized; it was the devil to get up and to stay up because, waterlogged, with the wind getting under the rising sail, she would just roll over again. She just kept rotating on the fore and aft buoyancy. It taught me to install flexible bags under the side seating. But as another poster implies, they are not easy to right with their wide beam.

I think the original proposal is a clear case of 'confidence is what you feel before you understand the situation' and believe it irresponsible for more experienced people to encourage.

 

[buzz915]

sounds to me like what you need is 2 more idiots who want to cross the channel but with next to no experience and in a topper buzz

we are regularly in contact with an RNLI sea safety advisor who has been advising us on what equipment and qualifications we should have and have been in touch with a number of people who regularly make the trip in small dinghys having spoke to these people and seen there reactions to what we are planing we are confidant we can make it
from the sounds of it your in a more sea worthy boat than ours and have more experience

i`ll pm you later

and to all the posts i will get in reply to this. yes we know its a stupid idea yes we know we might die but we will make it as safe as we can for our selves and others and if we dont feel ready or the weather is not favorable we wont go
again we know we might die its a calculated risk you take in everything you do everyone dies not everyone lives

 

[Searush]

Just make sure you can deal with stronger or lighter winds than forcast & with probable breakages/ loss of gear. Most dinghies are somewhat over canvassed for cruising & cannot be reefed under way. They are extremely unsuitable craft for the journey. But you might get lucky.

"Do you feel lucky, Punk?" as Dirty Harry said.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

I'm all for initiative and adventure but I just can't believe those cheering the OP on with this absurd endeavour.

Of course in benign conditions it is quite doable but that isn't the point. Open sea conditions in such a craft when the weather changes can be catastrophic, as anyone knows who sails offshore. Small problems occur and then escalate, we've all seen it - Murphy is always with us.

With reference to the Wayfarer. In my youth I used to sail and race one out of Whitby, often single-handed. Once I participated in a club race round an off-shore oil rig with it and had to reef when close to the mark - I was very comforted when a small cruiser stood by as I did so, the likelihood of getting swamped from the building wave-crests was very real.

On another occasion I was capsized; it was the devil to get up and to stay up because, waterlogged, with the wind getting under the rising sail, she would just roll over again. She just kept rotating on the fore and aft buoyancy. It taught me to install flexible bags under the side seating. But as another poster implies, they are not easy to right with their wide beam.

I think the original proposal is a clear case of 'confidence is what you feel before you understand the situation' and believe it irresponsible for more experienced people to encourage.

You are of course completely entitled to that opinion... but IMHO without a bit of spirit of adventure, we'd still be living in caves and saying 'Ugg', RJK would have never set off on his journey, we'd have never discovered the new world and the Galapagos islands would remain unknown.

Of course it has its risks, but careful planning, and sensible precaution can mitigate against those.

I applaud them, but appeal to them to plan it carefully, especially in consideration of a support vessel.

 

[sailorman]

sounds to me like what you need is 2 more idiots who want to cross the channel but with next to no experience and in a topper buzz

we are regularly in contact with an RNLI sea safety advisor who has been advising us on what equipment and qualifications we should have and have been in touch with a number of people who regularly make the trip in small dinghys having spoke to these people and seen there reactions to what we are planing we are confidant we can make it
from the sounds of it your in a more sea worthy boat than ours and have more experience

i`ll pm you later

and to all the posts i will get in reply to this. yes we know its a stupid idea yes we know we might die but we will make it as safe as we can for our selves and others and if we dont feel ready or the weather is not favorable we wont go
again we know we might die its a calculated risk you take in everything you do everyone dies not everyone lives

Please become an RNLI member, call it Insurance

 

[fergie_mac66]

Heres a thought

Might be worth trying to fit if poss' some sort of spray dodger

 

[monkfish24]

everyone dies not everyone lives

Nice use of some Drake lyrics there

I'm only a tad older than you, I'd just like to make it known we're not all boring old farts on here! (tongue firmly pressed to cheek!)

I'd say, take the necessary precautions but overall, enjoy it. Not many people do it because they are scared of everything going wrong. If we planned for every failure, we'd all be pottering round in warships.....

Countless people have swum the channel and lived and enjoyed their experience, what says it's no less safe on a dinghy providing you have someone covering your back. Just make sure your in check with all the right authorities and you should be ok. If worse came to the worse in france, tie the painter to the yacht or mobo that is with you and just pretend you were on a day out enjoying the beautiful Mer de francais!

I remember a trip, similar to Searush's, Me and a friend decided to sail a rather knackered old Lark and a topper down the River Tamar in Plymouth and out to the Sound. We'd checked forecasts etc but forgot about the narrows which can sometimes run happily up to 4kts! Yeah, we forgot the tide and by time we got there it had reached 3/12's of the tide. I could just get out but the topper couldn't. Just as the topper started making way a warship turned the corner and headed straight for us.

A police boat "gave chase", well just siddled up to him, told us off for being daft sailing dinghies through it at full current in a force 2 and we were ushered back up the river. Still is the most fun day I ever had. Nothing compared to your channel crossing but what if the current was the other way and we were trying to get home.....

 

[BobPrell]

IMHO without a bit of spirit of adventure, we'd still be living in caves and saying 'Ugg' .

Of course it has its risks, but careful planning, and sensible precaution can mitigate against those.

I applaud them, but appeal to them to plan it carefully, especially in consideration of a support vessel.

I would go further Morgana and say that without the spirit of adventure, it would not be possible to live in the cave. It is imperative to venture out not just to hunt and gather, but to go further than before and find new hunting and gathering grounds.

 

[Searush]

I would go further Morgana and say that without the spirit of adventure, it would not be possible to live in the cave. It is imperative to venture out not just to hunt and gather, but to go further than before and find new hunting and gathering grounds.

And sailing across a bit of water full of big ships in a totally unsuitable boat will advance humankind in exactly what way?

Plenty of opportunities for personal adventure - but this is not really a sensible level of risk, unless a great deal of preparation is undertaken. It is more likely that Mollykins & co will end up relying on others to come & rescue them when something unforseen goes wrong, unless they get more experience.

I have consistently tried to advise them of probable risk areas in this escapade. I have never said "don't go" - but they really will need to get some sea experience in the craft & learn a lot more about the risks than they currently understand.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

And sailing across a bit of water full of big ships in a totally unsuitable boat will advance humankind in exactly what way?

In exactly the same way that sailing across in a suitable boat would...

It makes no sense to row across the Atlantic, or to walk to the North Pole, or to climb mount Everest....

But sometimes its just good to do it because it can be done.

Ask Chris Bonnington.

 

[Seajet]

'Row The Atlantic or walk to the North Pole' ?

Do us a favour ! Loads of dinghies have crossed the Channel, as I mentioned early on in this thread, Uffa Fox sailed an undecked International 14 across 3-up, won a load of races then sailed back.

There is nothing special about the proposed trip whatsoever, apart from the singular lack of experience and understanding of those proposing it.

The hazards of the shipping lanes are not something being approached with plucky spirit, more of a 'bumble across and hope not to be in / cause a nasty accident'.

People here would rightly pour scorn if a gang from a pub went across in a pedalo, but if the wind falls light they'd be in more control than our heroes in a Graduate !

If something with pluck that's actually worthwhile without unseamanlike messing about in the shipping lanes is the idea, I suggest sailing around Britain, camping at night.

It would take a lot longer than the few days of the cross-Channel stunt, but would make a lot more sense.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Don't be put off by those whose sense of adventure is having two Fray Bentos pies for lunch whilst anchored in their stout and stable old yacht. Good grief if people can swim across the bl**dy channel I think sailing across in a dinghy may just be possible. If you are part of the Sea Scouts I see regularly at Woodbridge then you have lots of experience; take the best of the advice like having a buddy mobo/yacht and crew and inform the Coastguard in advance. You are already familiar with the standard emergency equipment and a good weather window will make it a great day. If you want some help crewing the buddy boat let me know.

Not a pop at Seajet BTW, posted at the same time.

 

[Searush]

Don't be put off by those whose sense of adventure is having two Fray Bentos pies for lunch whilst anchored in their stout and stable old yacht. Good grief if people can swim across the bl**dy channel I think sailing across in a dinghy may just be possible. If you are part of the Sea Scouts I see regularly at Woodbridge then you have lots of experience; take the best of the advice like having a buddy mobo/yacht and crew and inform the Coastguard in advance. You are already familiar with the standard emergency equipment and a good weather window will make it a great day. If you want some help crewing the buddy boat let me know.

Not a pop at Seajet BTW, posted at the same time.

You too could do with reading more than the last few posts in a thread before getting on your high horse. In fact, the very first post told you they are only used to lake & river sailing (probably with rescue craft at hand & the shore within a few minutes swim) & had never been to sea.

Will any one else with an "opinion" kindly read the whole thread first, as we are just covering the same nonsense over & over again.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

There is nothing special about the proposed trip whatsoever, apart from the singular lack of experience and understanding of those proposing it.....

.....If something with pluck that's actually worthwhile without unseamanlike messing about in the shipping lanes is the idea, I suggest sailing around Britain, camping at night.

Blummin 'eck Seajet!!!!

Don't you think the very fact that they've come on here and asked for some advice and thoughts demonstrates that they understand that very point?

Sound like a group of youngsters with a bit of a sense of adventure to me.... i'd like to see some positive encouragement (along with sound advice) rather than belittlement or scorn.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

You too could do with reading more than the last few posts in a thread before getting on your high horse. In fact, the very first post told you they are only used to lake & river sailing (probably with rescue craft at hand & the shore within a few minutes swim) & had never been to sea.

Will any one else with an "opinion" kindly read the whole thread first, as we are just covering the same nonsense over & over again.

Yes we have read the whole thread and shocking though it sounds, still have a different opinion to you. Good grief how is that possible

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Searush,

IME lake sailors are amongst the best sailors in the country. They have an ability to react to changing wind conditions vastly superior to most sea based sailors, simply because that's what they experience week in week out. Not to say that they don't need to prep, and get some sea time under their belts, but as per my previous post.... maybe some positive support rather than immediate condemnation would help

 

[KevB]

Interesting accounts of crossing the channel in small sailing boats HERE

 

[Katouf]

Sailing the channel in an open boat

"IME lake sailors are amongst the best sailors in the country. They have an ability to react to changing wind conditions vastly superior to most sea based sailors, simply because that's what they experience week in week out."

Wind changes are not everything!
When I was a Sea Scout (as opposed to a Sea Cadet), our Admiralty Registered Group sailed in 27' whalers, Tideway dinghies and everything in between. We participated in an organised Channel Cruise, joining those who had sailed down from HMS President in London at Queenborough - except most didn't make it.
Weymouth SEA Scouts made the trip overland to London and sailed successfully. Lake sailors (not OUR Lake Sailor) invariably ended up with broken rudders and centreplates, in the same type of boat, because of wave action and water pressure on large areas of plywood. The boats in question were the Scout Association approved Home Counties grp gigs. Nice to row or sail on lakes and rivers but only suitable for sea use in experienced hands.
I would suggest that the OP is heading for a big accident with three-up in a 12' 6" dinghy designed for 2 presons. There is no way a Draduate can compare to a Wayfarer.
Incidentally, the cruise was accompanied by 2 RNVR MFVs who dictated the course to steer from Ramsgate to Calais and took us down wind and downtide of Calais and left us to fight against both to gain the harbour.

 

[Seajet]

I thought about doing this ( yes, you can say 'just thought about it' ) when aged about 17, with a crew of 15.

We were already both experienced including cross-Channel in cruisers, in my case as skipper; our dinghy was a Scorpion, infinitely more seaworthy than a Graduate and much better able to cope with light or strong winds.

Investigation of the French attitude to this and the then incoming regulations for the shipping lanes - no safety boat was even considered - was enough for us to bin the idea.

We were reasonably adventurous, I remember surfing the Scorpion off the Winner in early Spring, and we did get some funny looks as we lit the stove and cooked in a Fireball under way.

I'll say it again, if these chaps want adventure - I don't know why people are making this out to be rare, I certainly haven't given up on todays youth - they would have a lot more fun, and learn a lot more about sailing and navigation among other things - with a decent coastal camping trip, if Round Britain is too long how about Dover - Lands' End ?

That's no dinghy trip for fairies !