Sailiboat for Brittany, North Sea, Baltic Sea?

[BarryWhite]

I am looking for a sailboat to cruise in Brittany, the North Sea, the Baltic Sea.
I sail about two months per year.
With a limited budget (<40ke) and looking for safety, I prefer to stay between 34 - 38 feet.
I understand a boat is always a compromise and I am looking for seaworthiness, comfort at sea, "fast enough", suitable for single handed, with enough headroom for my 1m87, and ideally with 2 cabins...

Some advised me to look at GGR boats (there was a Biscay 36 for 30ke)... but they are sluggish.

Others recommended design from the '80s, from
-FR: Dufour 35, Sun Fizz, First 35 or 38, Feeling 1040/1090, Wauquiez Gladiateur (I felt cramped inside),
-IT: Grand Soleil 343
-UK: Moody 33s, Contessa 35
-Nordics: Scanmar 33, Norlin 34 or 37, Sweden Yachts C34.

Or cruiser-racer from the '90s, such as:
Delher 36 DB (more for racing?), Dehler 38, Sun Fast 36 (+- 50ke), Sun Fast 37 (out of budget).

Any others? / Any advice? / Recommendations ? Thanks

 

[Refueler]

Given your specs .... 40K does limit it a bit ..... but initially ignoring monetary value ... would be one of the Jeanneau's ...

Nice Jeanneau Espace in Spain for 33K ... (yes I know ... Spain ... ) .....

As you say 1990's .... but they did not become popular Charter / School boats for nothing ....

 

[Lightwave395]

If you can find a nice one a dehler 36CWS would be better for cruising than the 36db (one of which I owned for 4 years - I won a solo round the island race in mine), they're a quick and stable boat but only tiller steered which is fine but it doesn't fold up out of the way when in port.

Slightly smaller and equally good to sail is the 35CWS although if you can find one it might be a little out of budget, had one of those too - did a fair few solo miles, this was me coming 5th in class out of 70 odd Round the island with just 2 of us onboard:

 

[Tranona]

I am looking for a sailboat to cruise in Brittany, the North Sea, the Baltic Sea.
I sail about two months per year.
With a limited budget (<40ke) and looking for safety, I prefer to stay between 34 - 38 feet.
I understand a boat is always a compromise and I am looking for seaworthiness, comfort at sea, "fast enough", suitable for single handed, with enough headroom for my 1m87, and ideally with 2 cabins...

Some advised me to look at GGR boats (there was a Biscay 36 for 30ke)... but they are sluggish.

Others recommended design from the '80s, from
-FR: Dufour 35, Sun Fizz, First 35 or 38, Feeling 1040/1090, Wauquiez Gladiateur (I felt cramped inside),
-IT: Grand Soleil 343
-UK: Moody 33s, Contessa 35
-Nordics: Scanmar 33, Norlin 34 or 37, Sweden Yachts C34.

Or cruiser-racer from the '90s, such as:
Delher 36 DB (more for racing?), Dehler 38, Sun Fast 36 (+- 50ke), Sun Fast 37 (out of budget).

Any others? / Any advice? / Recommendations ? Thanks

Any of them - they were all designed with that purpose in mind. Look at a lot of boats (not easy in these days of limited supply- at least in the UK) and buy a boat that you like in the best condition and with the best equipment possible. Boats are very personal things and there are very few "bad" boats. If you have experience of this size and type of boat then you will be able to identify what it is you like about a boat. If you don't have experience then buy a popular model in good condition as after a year or 2 your expectations may change and you might wish to sell it and buy something else. Difficult to buy the "perfect" boat of this size and complexity from scratch and get it right first time.

Be aware that if you are a UK resident and buy a boat in Europe you cannot bring it into the UK, even for a day without importing it which means paying VAT and getting it certified, whereas if you buy a boat in the UK you are free to visit the EU and leave it there for up to 18 months at a time.

 

[BarryWhite]

Given your specs .... 40K does limit it a bit ..... but initially ignoring monetary value ... would be one of the Jeanneau's ...

Nice Jeanneau Espace in Spain for 33K ... (yes I know ... Spain ... ) .....

As you say 1990's .... but they did not become popular Charter / School boats for nothing ....

Thanks - The Espace looks like a motor sailor ...

 

[BarryWhite]

If you can find a nice one a dehler 36CWS would be better for cruising than the 36db (one of which I owned for 4 years - I won a solo round the island race in mine), they're a quick and stable boat but only tiller steered which is fine but it doesn't fold up out of the way when in port.

Slightly smaller and equally good to sail is the 35CWS although if you can find one it might be a little out of budget, had one of those too - did a fair few solo miles, this was me coming 5th in class out of 70 odd Round the island with just 2 of us onboard:

View attachment 145297

Beautiful picture. Don't you have too much friction with the CWS ?
Two years ago I visited a Dehler 36 DB but with a wheel (instead of the tiller).
Do you know that one ?

 

[BarryWhite]

Any of them - they were all designed with that purpose in mind. Look at a lot of boats (not easy in these days of limited supply- at least in the UK) and buy a boat that you like in the best condition and with the best equipment possible. Boats are very personal things and there are very few "bad" boats. If you have experience of this size and type of boat then you will be able to identify what it is you like about a boat. If you don't have experience then buy a popular model in good condition as after a year or 2 your expectations may change and you might wish to sell it and buy something else. Difficult to buy the "perfect" boat of this size and complexity from scratch and get it right first time.

Be aware that if you are a UK resident and buy a boat in Europe you cannot bring it into the UK, even for a day without importing it which means paying VAT and getting it certified, whereas if you buy a boat in the UK you are free to visit the EU and leave it there for up to 18 months at a time.

thanks for your advice. I'm resident in Belgium ;-)

 

[Tranona]

thanks for your advice. I'm resident in Belgium ;-)

Then the advice is essentially the same, except you are unlikely to find many UK built boats of that era. Probably the best place to buy is Netherlands as they tend to look after their boats better there as well as preparing them better when it comes to selling. Remember these are 30-40 year old boats and refitting/replacement costs are out of proportion to purchase price - sails £5k, engine £10k, navigation gear£5-10k and so on, so a well maintained regularly upgraded boat is worth paying "extra" (assuming it meets your other requirements).

 

[Daydream believer]

You did not mention the "Feeling". Are they any good as cruising boats?
Some have been used for charter, so must have some advantages re living space.
Unfortunately a 35 ft Hanse would probably be out of your price range, or worn out.
They are excellent SH boats & very quick & quite roomy

 

[Refueler]

Thanks - The Espace looks like a motor sailor ...

Yes it does ... but it can hold its own against many of what you listed in first post ...

It was only an example anyway of what's out there .......

When you get cruising as you list - you may thank having a covered station .... its not always sunshine and postcard weather.

 

[Refueler]

If I lived in Belgium ... I would not look at UK market TBH .....

As an EU resident (Latvia) .... I would be looking :

Sweden ... but based on seasons
Netherlands
Norway - amazing bargains there .... pal of mine buys and sells Norske boats ...
Spain
Portugal

funny enough despite the number of boats - France does not rate highly for me on prices per condition.

But really EU has plenty of boats out there - just need to take time searching ....

 

[Refueler]

You did not mention the "Feeling". Are they any good as cruising boats?
Some have been used for charter, so must have some advantages re living space.
Unfortunately a 35 ft Hanse would probably be out of your price range, or worn out.
They are excellent SH boats & very quick & quite roomy

Always liked the Feeling boats ... I also liked to other Lift Keel boats - Southerly.

Always remember one of the larger Southerly's making a fast run across Solent ... showing clean transom to many ... then next seen beached in Bembridge ... family enjoying the sand ... later Tide in and away they went ...

 

[Lightwave395]

Beautiful picture. Don't you have too much friction with the CWS ?
Two years ago I visited a Dehler 36 DB but with a wheel (instead of the tiller).
Do you know that one ?

Never found a friction problem with the 35CWS but it differs from the 36CWS in that it has two electric winches, one each side rather than one in the centre. I believe there is/was a 36db with a wheel, might have been originally called 'Catriona' but it was a conversion. The db does have running backstays but they're for tweaking not holding the rig up and I generally tucked mine away when cruising - I still have a soft spot for the 36db, a quick, tough boat - dug out this picture of mine from 1997 during a windy Cowes week:

 

[BarryWhite]

Then the advice is essentially the same, except you are unlikely to find many UK built boats of that era. Probably the best place to buy is Netherlands as they tend to look after their boats better there as well as preparing them better when it comes to selling. Remember these are 30-40 year old boats and refitting/replacement costs are out of proportion to purchase price - sails £5k, engine £10k, navigation gear£5-10k and so on, so a well maintained regularly upgraded boat is worth paying "extra" (assuming it meets your other requirements).

Thank you for sharing all those info !

 

[BarryWhite]

Never found a friction problem with the 35CWS but it differs from the 36CWS in that it has two electric winches, one each side rather than one in the centre. I believe there is/was a 36db with a wheel, might have been originally called 'Catriona' but it was a conversion. The db does have running backstays but they're for tweaking not holding the rig up and I generally tucked mine away when cruising - I still have a soft spot for the 36db, a quick, tough boat - dug out this picture of mine from 1997 during a windy Cowes week:

View attachment 145326

That is really a beautiful picture, showing how powerful de the boat is !

Once I visited a Dehler 37 ST, which is the DB with a wheel. However there was too much work on and I decided not to bid on that one...

 

[johnalison]

There is nothing special about the Baltic Sea except the ubiquitous box moorings. This means that boats with a rubbing strake capped with metal are at an advantage and boats with tumblehome will want to deploy a long fender made of rope. If you have a conventional strake that serves the purpose, it may be worth capping it, as is sometimes done.

 

[BabaYaga]

There is nothing special about the Baltic Sea except the ubiquitous box moorings.

Another thing the OP might want to consider for cruising there is a holding tank with pump out deck fitting (or possibility to fit one), since discharge to the sea is unlawful in Finland and Sweden.

 

[doug748]

Any others? / Any advice? / Recommendations ? Thanks

Not really but there are lots of yachts available on the Continent that never really made it to the UK market. Including some especially attractive boats from Germany, Holland and Scandinavia. You are in the box seat.

For singlehanding I like a boat that will sail on when over pressed, be directionally stable, easy on the autopilot and will heave to. A tiller is also nice. If genuine and still available, this sort of thing:

Victoire 34, 34.500 € | iNautia.fr

As the others have said get the best you can, whatever the choice but you do need a few bob for upgrades in the first year. A good smaller boat is better than a rough big one.

.

 

[Refueler]

Another thing the OP might want to consider for cruising there is a holding tank with pump out deck fitting (or possibility to fit one), since discharge to the sea is unlawful in Finland and Sweden.

The whole Baltic is actually restricted black water area ...... my boat in Latvia - when I registered - required to re-route my Blakes to holding tank or remove ...

Problem is though ... not so many pump out stations !!!

 

[Refueler]

There is nothing special about the Baltic Sea except the ubiquitous box moorings. This means that boats with a rubbing strake capped with metal are at an advantage and boats with tumblehome will want to deploy a long fender made of rope. If you have a conventional strake that serves the purpose, it may be worth capping it, as is sometimes done.

I live and sail in Baltic .... think you are overstating a small matter.

I would not be too happy if someone rafted to me with rope fenders ..... they hold grit / salt etc. Similarly - I would not use such for thought of my own Gel coat !!

The only item that is a good item to have here - is a step through pulpit ......