Saildrive

fontmell said:
Hi all
I am confused by this post
Myoil level is below minimum just and I release pressure when Un doing dip stick.. Idon't think oil is milky but will drain and check properly when boat out water
assuming no water in oil
Do I have a problem?
Many thanks
Click to expand...
The slight pressure/vacuum when releasing the dipstick is normally a good sign so don't worry about it.

If the oil is slightly below the minimum the question then is whether that is the level you filled it to yourself or is that the level that a previous owner/mechanic filled it to. If it was filled to that level by someone else, it's likely that they, like some of us, only ever fill the saildrive to the minimum level as that appears to give the seals a longer life. There are many threads about this including the one referenced in post #3.

Richard
 
fontmell said:
Hi all
I am confused by this post
Myoil level is below minimum just and I release pressure when Un doing dip stick.. Idon't think oil is milky but will drain and check properly when boat out water
assuming no water in oil
Do I have a problem?
Many thanks
Click to expand...
I started this thread so people are aware if there pressure when you release the dip stick you may have a problem .
My experience is from having saildrives and having seal problem over many years not what I Google up .
I agree with Richard keeping the oil level to min or just over is better then having it to the Max .
If you remove your dip stick while the oil is still warm you will get a hiss this is normal , if on the other hand it check once the oil is totally cold an hiss could and I say could be a indication of a problem about to happen , don't take my word for that , ask volvspec .
In both case this year the first indication i have was pressure and a very slight increase of oil , so slight if I wasn't looking for it I wouldn't at noticed, no milky oil .
Some days later the oil started to turn milky but if left over night the next day it was clear again , check just after use and it was like milk , people will tell you if you check the oil after use it will look a bit milky I dis agree I can now check my oil straight after use and its 100% clear and no hissing noise .
If I had to suggest what sign to look for regards seals it be a lost or incress of oil .
Normally and this is my experience not what I read or Google after many year with saildrive on different boats if there no problem with seal the oil level will be the same level from one end of the season to the next , I have never had to top up oil level in a sail drive
Going back to your posting , if your 100% there no water in the oil and your not losing any i say you have no problem , but if your going to haul out any way and your seal haven't been changed for some years , its the good time to remove the bearing hub check the shaft for scoring and replace the seals ,O rings and don't forget the drain O ring , it may just save you another haul out mid season .
 
RichardS said:
The slight pressure/vacuum when releasing the dipstick is normally a good sign so don't worry about it.

If the oil is slightly below the minimum the question then is whether that is the level you filled it to yourself or is that the level that a previous owner/mechanic filled it to. If it was filled to that level by someone else, it's likely that they, like some of us, only ever fill the saildrive to the minimum level as that appears to give the seals a longer life. There are many threads about this including the one referenced in post #3.

Richard
Click to expand...
Richard as you know I had problems with mine this season twice once possibly my own fault for not checking the bolts threads wasn't clean enough .
I had long conversation with volvospec engineer and three other volvo engineers in the South Coast all said that any hissing when the sail drive it totally cold isn't correct you may get a bit while its hot , which means nothing .
I rather except there view on this then anyone else no disrespect and as you know me I know you know I mean that .
To go one stage further since I sorted out my problem I don't get any hissing when removing my dip stick hot or cold .
I got pariond and been checking it each week and we doing around at less a few hundred miles a week under engine as we mostly every day sail where .
Not to confues anyone I say again an hiss when the drive is cold COULD be a start of a problem ,
 
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sailaboutvic said:
Richard as you know I had problems with mine this season twice once possibly my own fault for not checking the bolts threads wasn't clean enough .
I had long conversation with volvospec engineer and three other volvo engineers in the South Coast all said that any hissing when the sail drive it totally cold isn't correct you may get a bit while its hot , which means nothing .
I rather except there view on this then anyone else no disrespect and as you know me I know you know I mean that .
To go one stage further since I sorted out my problem I don't get any hissing when removing my dip stick hot or cold .
I got pariond and been checking it each week and we doing around at less a few hundred miles a week under engine as we mostly every day sail where .
Not to confues anyone I say again an hiss when the drive is cold COULD be a start of a problem ,
Click to expand...
Hi Vic ..... I guess it depends when you check the oil. I always get a slight hiss when I release my dipstick, even when the seals were brand new, although once it has cooled down it might be a vacuum hiss rather than a pressure hiss as it's difficult to tell. Once the saildrive has been left standing for long enough, the pressure/vacuum equalises. I checked both mine last week after they had been standing for a year and there was no sound at all and both were still on the minimum level which is where I left them.

As you say, the only sure test is whether the oil has gone cloudy if looked at an hour or two after running so the air bubbles are not confusing the issue. I also agree that filling to the minimum mark (with the filler cap resting on it's threads on top of the housing) seems to be a good idea.

Richard
 
I have no experience of the Volvo saildrive but it’s not uncommon for Yanmar to take quite a long time for the oil to settle, hence finding the level below minimum after an oil change. There are very small but long galleries inside the housing and sometimes refilling the box will cause an air lock in one of them. I’ve witnessed a drop in the level many hours after service, quite disconcerting until you’re aware of the reason.
 
sailaboutvic said:
I'm sorry to disagree with you and so will volspec when the drive is cool there should be no pressure in there .
Also there a third option to the shaft score , that is as I don't on this shaft and a few others in the pass , use a speedy sleeve .

Edit sorry yotter just seen your posting re speedy sleeve .
Click to expand...
Sorry, been away without internet for a while (working on, not sailing the boat....)
The pressure imbalance is quite common, I know the guys at Volspec from my days running a VP Centre, and having cut my teeth in the field with some of their guys they also have the same experience as I do.
The hissing is caused by the vacuum created in the S/D - assuming there is no vent arrangement, and all things are OK with seals/o-rings at the top end, this is seen fairly more often that not. In fact, where I was working with VP at the time, if we didn't have a vacuum it was seen to be more of an issue - these were in waters that were known for fast scale growth and silty conditions that tended to wear shafts and seals more often, so local bias is also completely a consideration.
The vacuum is caused due to the fact that there is one lip seal for oil, and two for water. It is easier for the air to work past the oil seal under pressure, but harder for it to be drawn back in past the two seals under vacuum. In our (local) cases, we would usually find that a S/D without an internal pressure drop has one or both water seals affected (scale, shaft wear or combination of both).
The above is said with the caveat that your (and others) local experience may vary. My answer was to the OP that the pressure (hissing) noise is nothing to be concerned about, and actually is a sign that the in-water (shaft) seals are in good order - this is a positive :)

Regarding speedy sleeves, I completely forgot about those in my answer. I haven't ever fitted any, as they are usually (as indicated) a DIY job, but I have heard that they are able to prolong the inevitable by a good few years. I did know of one owner who had an engineering shop so took matters into his own hands and had his shaft ground, welded, re-finished and case hardened around the seal area - now that is commitment!!! :cool:
 
Moodysailor said:
Sorry, been away without internet for a while (working on, not sailing the boat....)
The pressure imbalance is quite common, I know the guys at Volspec from my days running a VP Centre, and having cut my teeth in the field with some of their guys they also have the same experience as I do.
The hissing is caused by the vacuum created in the S/D - assuming there is no vent arrangement, and all things are OK with seals/o-rings at the top end, this is seen fairly more often that not. In fact, where I was working with VP at the time, if we didn't have a vacuum it was seen to be more of an issue - these were in waters that were known for fast scale growth and silty conditions that tended to wear shafts and seals more often, so local bias is also completely a consideration.
The vacuum is caused due to the fact that there is one lip seal for oil, and two for water. It is easier for the air to work past the oil seal under pressure, but harder for it to be drawn back in past the two seals under vacuum. In our (local) cases, we would usually find that a S/D without an internal pressure drop has one or both water seals affected (scale, shaft wear or combination of both).
The above is said with the caveat that your (and others) local experience may vary. My answer was to the OP that the pressure (hissing) noise is nothing to be concerned about, and actually is a sign that the in-water (shaft) seals are in good order - this is a positive :)

Regarding speedy sleeves, I completely forgot about those in my answer. I haven't ever fitted any, as they are usually (as indicated) a DIY job, but I have heard that they are able to prolong the inevitable by a good few years. I did know of one owner who had an engineering shop so took matters into his own hands and had his shaft ground, welded, re-finished and case hardened around the seal area - now that is commitment!!! :cool:
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the info. One thing that I am curious about is how air can be pushed out through a seal, I understand that pressure will increase due to the oil (and air) warming, but I had assumed it to be all oil at the bottom of the leg and no air. Or am I missing something. Is the oil aeriated when the drive is running perhaps, otherwise why is it not oil that is pushed out past the seal(s)?
Angus
 
Moodysailor said:
The vacuum is caused due to the fact that there is one lip seal for oil, and two for water.
Click to expand...
My Yanmar saildrive has two lip seals on the lower prop shaft, one with the spring facing outwards towards the water and one with the lip facing inwards towards the oil. I assume that there is also another lip seal on the input shaft with the lip facing inwards towards the oil but I haven't inspected the top end.

Are Volvos different?

Richard
 
Hi Moody , there only two seal in the end of the sail drive , you may be talking about some other drive , there the one for the oil and the water one Which you put in back to back .
In the pass I never taken much attention about any hissing I have to admin , but it was very noticeable with both problem I had ,
Both volvospec and French marine both I sure you know are volvo dealers both said the same to me , which is there shouldn't be any noticeable hissing and none once the saildrive has cool down I found that's the case too , when I had my water problem opening the oil dip stick there was quite a hiss , now since I sorted the problem there none not even when it warm , I got a bit paranoid and was checking it after every use , it's now been a good month and a bit used most days and there still no hissing .
Re. the shaft , French marina will put a bush over the shaft and then turn it down to the right size , I use speedy sleeve on two over sail drive one my own and one I did for someone else , both have been good to this day and fingers cross the one I just did on this boat will hold out too .
I strongly recommend the use of them to any one who has this problem , but if you on the east coast for £180 so I understand French marina will bush the shaft .

Of cause what I wrote is my own experience.
 
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yotter said:
Many thanks for the info. One thing that I am curious about is how air can be pushed out through a seal, I understand that pressure will increase due to the oil (and air) warming, but I had assumed it to be all oil at the bottom of the leg and no air. Or am I missing something. Is the oil aeriated when the drive is running perhaps, otherwise why is it not oil that is pushed out past the seal(s)?
Angus
Click to expand...
I think you find because of the different in density water push pass the oil seal more then the other way around , is is why more and more people are fitting header tank to stop any water pushing pass the oil seal and getting into the saildrive , funny once to start talking to people it's amazing how many now have got these header tanks fittered amount cruisers I came across 7 since I worked on my saildrive , I'm also thinking over winter to fit one , I rather lose a bit of oil and have to top up then have to be pulled out again because of water intake .
Once the saildrive been standing for a while the water will end up at the bottom of the drive leg .
It a good reason to check the oil after use because the tell tail of milky oil will be clear to see ,
If you leave it till say the next day depend how bad the leak is , you may not see any sign of a problem .
Mine was very milky I took out over a 1/4 of water but if I checked it then next morning there was very little sign of a problem .
 
sailaboutvic said:
I think you find because of the different in density water push pass the oil seal more then the other way around , is is why more and more people are fitting header tank to stop any water pushing pass the oil seal and getting into the saildrive , funny once to start talking to people it's amazing how many now have got these header tanks fittered amount cruisers I came across 7 since I worked on my saildrive , I'm also thinking over winter to fit one , I rather lose a bit of oil and have to top up then have to be pulled out again because of water intake .
Once the saildrive been standing for a while the water will end up at the bottom of the drive leg .
It a good reason to check the oil after use because the tell tail of milky oil will be clear to see ,
If you leave it till say the next day depend how bad the leak is , you may not see any sign of a problem .
Mine was very milky I took out over a 1/4 of water but if I checked it then next morning there was very little sign of a problem .
Click to expand...

Presumably the header tank provides some positive pressure to the leg to reduce the chance of water ingress. Sounds like a good idea, but it may compromise the boats watertight integrity? Be interested to know how its fitted. Or perhaps just replacing the lower seals on a regular basis it also a plan rather just when they start to leak. We only do around 70 hours between haulouts, so not a big worry.
Angus
 
yotter said:
Presumably the header tank provides some positive pressure to the leg to reduce the chance of water ingress. Sounds like a good idea, but it may compromise the boats watertight integrity? Be interested to know how its fitted. Or perhaps just replacing the lower seals on a regular basis it also a plan rather just when they start to leak. We only do around 70 hours between haulouts, so not a big worry.
Angus
Click to expand...
It work by fitting the header tank as high as you can get it then filling the box right up to a level on the bottle where you can keep a eye on it , everyone I seem the owners have said it works one had it for six year without a problem ,
Most people here will only do little engine use each year and then get hauled out each year , I be temped for the sake of £80 to just change then each year and Be done with it or at less every other year , there not hard to do .
But for the like of us cruisers who do more engine hour in a year then you do in 3 or 4 and don't want to be hauled out every year I started to think the header tank is a good option .
My first job will be to find a plastic cap that will fit the oil filler .
If any know please post .
 
Skylark said:
I have no experience of the Volvo saildrive but it’s not uncommon for Yanmar to take quite a long time for the oil to settle, hence finding the level below minimum after an oil change. There are very small but long galleries inside the housing and sometimes refilling the box will cause an air lock in one of them. I’ve witnessed a drop in the level many hours after service, quite disconcerting until you’re aware of the reason.
Click to expand...
That’s my experience with Volvo S/D’s too. Particularly after doing an oil change.
Mike.
 
It’
Moodysailor said:
Sorry, been away without internet for a while (working on, not sailing the boat....)
The pressure imbalance is quite common, I know the guys at Volspec from my days running a VP Centre, and having cut my teeth in the field with some of their guys they also have the same experience as I do.
The hissing is caused by the vacuum created in the S/D - assuming there is no vent arrangement, and all things are OK with seals/o-rings at the top end, this is seen fairly more often that not. In fact, where I was working with VP at the time, if we didn't have a vacuum it was seen to be more of an issue - these were in waters that were known for fast scale growth and silty conditions that tended to wear shafts and seals more often, so local bias is also completely a consideration.
The vacuum is caused due to the fact that there is one lip seal for oil, and two for water. It is easier for the air to work past the oil seal under pressure, but harder for it to be drawn back in past the two seals under vacuum. In our (local) cases, we would usually find that a S/D without an internal pressure drop has one or both water seals affected (scale, shaft wear or combination of both).
The above is said with the caveat that your (and others) local experience may vary. My answer was to the OP that the pressure (hissing) noise is nothing to be concerned about, and actually is a sign that the in-water (shaft) seals are in good order - this is a positive :)

Regarding speedy sleeves, I completely forgot about those in my answer. I haven't ever fitted any, as they are usually (as indicated) a DIY job, but I have heard that they are able to prolong the inevitable by a good few years. I did know of one owner who had an engineering shop so took matters into his own hands and had his shaft ground, welded, re-finished and case hardened around the seal area - now that is commitment!!! :cool:
Click to expand...
It’s interestIng that you say a negative pressure is developed in the gearbox whilst it is running. I’ve always heard a hiss when checking oil level on Volvo S/D’s that I have owned but never been able to determine whether it was caused by air rushing in or out. Now I know!
You also make the comment that the drives have two seals preventing water ingress. The 130 model only has one seal at the bottom of the leg which opposes water. There is a second seal on the same shaft, but that is to prevent oil leaking out. In other words the two seals stand with their backs against each other. Did other models have a different t configuration?
Mike.
 
mikegunn said:
It’

It’s interestIng that you say a negative pressure is developed in the gearbox whilst it is running. I’ve always heard a hiss when checking oil level on Volvo S/D’s that I have owned but never been able to determine whether it was caused by air rushing in or out. Now I know!
You also make the comment that the drives have two seals preventing water ingress. The 130 model only has one seal at the bottom of the leg which opposes water. There is a second seal on the same shaft, but that is to prevent oil leaking out. In other words the two seals stand with their backs against each other. Did other models have a different t configuration?
Mike.
Click to expand...
Mike has you know I had 130 and now 120 both only had two seals .
 
RichardS said:
There is, almost certainly, a third seal on the input shaft as I mentioned above, which will also be involved in this pressure/vacuum generation but it's an oil seal rather than a water seal. I'm not sure where the second water seal is situated.

Richard
Click to expand...
Not st the bottom end , I'm sure there be more seals in the top end other wise the oil would leak out .
 
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