Sail setting/tightness Help

[ghostlymoron]

I had a problem with 'droopy boom' on my Mirage 28. Asked advice from a local sailmaker who re-stitched the luff rope which made a big difference, he also advised ditching the shackle/bowline for attaching the halyard and tying directly with a halyard knot which allowed a couple of inches extra 'hoist'. Result - problem solved and no luff wrinkles.

 

[xeitosaphil]

As mentioned before, it could be the halyard?

Is the halyard a braided type?

Does it have a knot or spliced eye with a shackle?

If eye and shackle arrangement it could be that the when the eye was spliced, the added thickness of the splice tail won't go right into the block sheave which could account for the 150mm short.
I had a similar arrangement on my main halyard which prevented the full height raise due to the extra thickness unable to enter the block.

Easily solved just cut the splice off and use a halyard knot . worked for me.

Other than that, just get a sail maker to put a cringle in the Luff so you can use a Cunningham. ( but you may also need a leech flattening cringle fitted as well, to set properly?

It maybe that your sails are old and just baggy/stretched so the Luff is considerably longer than its original length.

 

[MoodySabre]

As it is a 22' boat can we assume that it is quite a few years old? Do you know for sure that it is the correct sail for that model and that a previous owner didn't buy a secondhand sail that was "about right".

 

[Samosun]

Quite a lot to respond to here!

I'll definitely check the luff rope. Seem's like a relatively common issue.

Don107 - No harm asking, but yes I did. thanks.

alahol2 - I have not tried removing the split pin, but this could be another option. it doesn't look like it's come out in a long time though and I know the boat was sailed last year a fair bit. I'll examine more closely next time i'm down.

Daydream Believer & xeitosaphil - It's not the knot. I've changed all the running rigging for brand new braid on braid rope and it's a nice small Halyard knot and shackle on the halyard. there is also a lot of room between the knot and the pulley (~150mm)

William_H - thanks for the info. That makes sense based on how puny the sliders are.

Daydream Believer & Stemar - Apologies I should have written standing rigging. As above, all running rigging is just braid on braid polyester. If you meant 'why' for standing rigging it's for various reasons. Nothing to do with weight or performance but:

- I like the idea of being able to make up everything up myself without any more tooling than a few fids and kevlar scissors.
- I like the feel and look of rope over steel wire.
- I dislike turnbuckles and crimps, so many sharp edges and chafe points.
- It is cheaper, assuming you don't buy overpriced stuff like Colligo fittings. Ok the rope is more expensive than wire but as i can get solid cast thimbles for a couple of quid each and that's the only additional hardware i need i should save a bit of money.

I've already replaced my damaged back stay with some Dynice Dux rope I spliced myself and love it. It's not a 100% practical thing I just like the idea of it too. I had to tighten the lashings a couple of times but it is creeping very little now, even so it's easy to adjust.

Thanks again for all your responses and suggestions.

 

[Samosun]

As it is a 22' boat can we assume that it is quite a few years old? Do you know for sure that it is the correct sail for that model and that a previous owner didn't buy a secondhand sail that was "about right".

Very possible. I don't actually know how old it is! 1980's at some point.

 

[xeitosaphil]

Couple of questions.

Does the halyard go up to a block on the outside of the mast so the rope hoist is vertical?

Or is it an internal halyard which goes inside the mast.

If it goes inside the mast and the distance from the headboard hole to the mast sheave is quite big the pull will be virtually horizontal so may not be able to reach full height.

Another thing occurred to me, once the sail is hoisted as far as it will go does it stick there and you need forces to get it down again, or does it just fall easily.

If it sticks and need considerable pull to get it down, could it just be the sail track has been reduced in size internally maybe by damage, and the sail slide is too big for the groove?
You could try reducing the back of the sail slide on the top slide and see if that makes any difference. If it falls easily its not that.

Quite a puzzle really .What make of boat is it, we might be able to see photos of mast and sail arrangements from others online.

 

[Samosun]

Couple of questions.

Does the halyard go up to a block on the outside of the mast so the rope hoist is vertical?

It's internal. It doesn't seem to stick at the top, once the halyard is released it falls down easily enough.

It's an Invader 22. Not a very common boat it seems.

 

[wallacebob]

Thanks for your advcie!

Sandy - Yes it does, I have no idea when/if it's been cleaned. I got the boat very cheap and have no history with it at all. I need to get the mast down at some point to fix the masthead light and check the rigging (which i'm planning on swapping for Dyneema at some point)

Thistle - As above I am unaware of what the very top of the mast is like but the rest of the sliders go up easy enough. There is every chance there is something physically stopping it near the top. That is what it feels like. That said there is no visible stop or black band around the top of the mast. The gooseneck cannot be moved down without drilling another hole in the track below it. It's a pretty simple arrangement and just has a split pin holding it from falling lower. Looks like it's been that way for a long time.

There is no gate in the slot, actually I've just been researching these as it's a real pain. The slot is about 250mm from the boom so all but two of the sliders sit below the slot. this makes raising it a pain. I've found some pretty good solutions online, i'm an engineer by trade so can just fabricate something with relative ease.
The first reefing point is pretty high, maybe 1m from memory, I considered doing this but it seems like a half measure rather than fixing the route problem. I think you have a point about the forces, although I would have thought most of the forces while sailing where on the slots and sliders rather than vertically on the halyard? Maybe i'm wrong though. I may try getting some mechanical advantage with some blocks/pulleys.

Poignard - I will get some good binoculars and check. If all else fails I think like you say I will just remove the top 100mm of the sail (or try it myself), This seems like the simplest fix.

My 22 footer has a fixed u joint on boom, therefore no adjustment up/down. I have a loose footed sail, so I raise sail, then tighten the eye down to tension fully with rope. You mention the gooseneck is in a track, so therefore must be adjustable, usually by a lock screw thro the plate in the track? If two slugs dangle free at bottom of sail track, then your sail is too big surely? What boat is it, have you contacted class association for details?