Sail advice

[fisherman]

I had a lot of advice about basic setup for my ad hoc rig on the 15ft dredging punt, gratefully received and effective. What about this jib which I have tried, with the balanced lug? It is awkward tacking, the sheets are outside the forestay otherwise the sail fouls the gaff. It seems to upset the main being so close, it fills behind the luff. It doesn't seem to help with going about which is tricky unless the windspeed is within a very small window. Basically, main only, if I get it right she will come head to wind, just, then I push the boom out and the wind presses against the mast, she sails backwards for a bit then we're off again. I often have to gybe. Long straight keel, no dagger board.
is it just too close and the mast should be moved back, or a bowsprit fitted?
She sails nicely under main alone so I'm not sure the jib is helping.

 

[neil_s]

Maybe rig your jib on a bowsprit. Would get it forward out of the way of the lug and might move your C of E forward thus making tacking easier.

 

[fisherman]

Maybe rig your jib on a bowsprit. Would get it forward out of the way of the lug and might move your C of E forward thus making tacking easier.

yes could be, i'm going to run trials tomorrow, wind permitting, and discuss results with my wife in the nearby pub.....thanks

 

[MADRIGAL]

E. F. Knight says in Small Boat Sailing (published 1901) that mainsail and mizzen is the favoured rig for small lug-rigged sailing boats, but I am thinking that if it sails well on its mainsail alone, perhaps that is best. Do you think a jib on a bowsprit might create lee helm? Lovely boat, by the way.

 

[fisherman]

E. F. Knight says in Small Boat Sailing (published 1901) that mainsail and mizzen is the favoured rig for small lug-rigged sailing boats, but I am thinking that if it sails well on its mainsail alone, perhaps that is best. Do you think a jib on a bowsprit might create lee helm? Lovely boat, by the way.

Thanks. At the moment the balance is such that she will sail, main only, without any helm, if I move slightly for'd she luffs up, move aft she pays off, so having any more headsail may indeed create lee helm. I did try the jib, but it was a flukey and blustery 5/6 in the river, just got knocked about. It created wind pressure between the sails, unsettling the mainsail.
I like the mizzen idea, some small antique boats at the weekend festival had them.
With a mizzen I could increase the mainsail or fly headsails.

 

[DownWest]

I re-rigged a smaller boat as a gunter and later added a little bowsprit and jib. It sailed quite well with the main, but the jib really improved things. While it had a bit of weather helm under main, with the jib it would still round up if you let go, but very little force on the tiller. It did have a little dagger board.

 

[MADRIGAL]

Thanks. At the moment the balance is such that she will sail, main only, without any helm, if I move slightly for'd she luffs up, move aft she pays off, so having any more headsail may indeed create lee helm. I did try the jib, but it was a flukey and blustery 5/6 in the river, just got knocked about. It created wind pressure between the sails, unsettling the mainsail.
I like the mizzen idea, some small antique boats at the weekend festival had them.
With a mizzen I could increase the mainsail or fly headsails.

Her change in balance in respond to fore-and-aft trim is interesting. Your position in the boat must be changing the centre of lateral resistance (moving as you move) but not having much effect on the centre of effort via rake of the mast.

I'm currently reading Joshua Slocum's Sailing Alone Around the World, and in that book, he recounts how he added a small miizzen, or jigger, to his sloop, Spray. He had to build a framework hanging over the transom to lead the sheet because the length of the main boom forced him to step the mizzenmast almost at the transom. He later shortened the boom.

 

[DownWest]

'nother thought: How difficult would it be to move the mast back a bit? Then the jib might balance better and be less 'caught' by the yard. Also, when tacking, let her go a bit further round than needed, so the wind blows the leach past the yard, then harden up and point up. That would get the sheets back, rather than round the forestay.

Friend with a little cutter had balance problems with lee helm. Back of envelope and pencil, then moved the mast back about 3". Worked a treat. Only had to move the chain plates aft a bit and add a shackle to the forestay.

 

[fisherman]

I had a Mirror rig on it at first, and the mast step was a foot further aft. Going about was more difficult, balance about the same, but performance was slower.
I keep a 20litre can of water in the bow as ballast, if I have crew I don't need it. Without it I miss stays a lot. Me moving for'd, or the ballast, gets the bow to bite and allows the rudder to push the stern round.....I think. She is dead level, same draft both ends. Newer rig here, then the mirror one;

 

[DownWest]

Looking at the underbody, no surprise that weight shift has a big effect.

 

[Wansworth]

yes could be, i'm going to run trials tomorrow, wind permitting, and discuss results with my wife in the nearby pub.....thanks

Is she an expert?

 

[fisherman]

Is she an expert?

She hates sailing and gets seasick, but has an analytical mind and often spots a salient point.....and she's good company over a beer.

 

[mikefleetwood]

Have you got any sort of centre-board or lee-boards?

 

[fisherman]

Have you got any sort of centre-board or lee-boards?

No. But just been thinking, as she heels the hull becomes a spoon. It would be easy to install a keel box in each bilge, only cutting one frame, stabilised to the thwarts, slip in a 12in daggerboard. Only thing, a grounding would be difficult as they wouldn't be designed to hinge. However, the hull slipping away sideways when pressed may be what saves me from a capsize......

 

[Stemar]

However, the hull slipping away sideways when pressed may be what saves me from a capsize......

Very likely - there's a lot to be said for staying dry!

If you want to try it, you could rig up lee boards over each side which would allow you to experiment without hacking the boat apart

Set 'em up so you can use one at a time, and only put the windward one down, which will reduce the chances of getting wet as it lifts out of the water as the boat heels

 

[fisherman]

A friend is making some that fit in the rowlock holes, his boat is heavier and flatter bottomed than mine.

 

[fisherman]

Trials yesterday, very good, went about nicely, but, flat water and exactly the right breeze. Over the weekend was getting knocked about by the seas, so just at the point of going about a wave comes and knocks the bow back. Maybe more ballast up for'd when it's lumpy, I was mostly having to wear away and gybe. (bit daunting)

 

[Daydream believer]

I cannot tell from the picture where the leech of the jib comes exactly. However. If one places an eye on the front of the gaff; or better still a wheel with a locating saddle over it. Then took a line from one shroud through the eye then to the other shroud & pulled it tight it may help the leech slide over the gaff when tacking. The eye on the gaff would have to be such that it allows the gaff to swing from side to side, as the line runs through the eye . On the run the line should go slack but on the wind it would be tight. Which is what you want for tacking. A strong bungee might do the trick. You would have a clip each end, or on the gaff,so it can be removed prior to hoisting or lowering the gaff. A couple of ss rings on the shrouds & a bungee, instead of a fixed length line, would allow it to rise & fall with the gaff.
However, if the leech of the jib comes too far back it will foul the line & you will not be able to do that. So the idea can be binned.

 

[MADRIGAL]

Trials yesterday, very good, went about nicely, but, flat water and exactly the right breeze. Over the weekend was getting knocked about by the seas, so just at the point of going about a wave comes and knocks the bow back. Maybe more ballast up for'd when it's lumpy, I was mostly having to wear away and gybe. (bit daunting)

It sounds like she could use a bit of weather helm to help her round up into the wind. A mizzen would provide that, and help push her through the eye of the wind when she comes about.

 

[fisherman]

It sounds like she could use a bit of weather helm to help her round up into the wind. A mizzen would provide that, and help push her through the eye of the wind when she comes about.

I'm nearly persuaded, look nice too.