Safety of Edel Cat 35 as a blue water cruiser?

[flyfisher]

I've read the opinion of the publisher of latitude 38 that one should not do blue water cruising in any catamaran less than 40' OAL. On the other hand at least one Prout 33 (Alec Mayne family) has circumnavigated. We've also read the pursuasive arguments of the Pardey's concerning the "savings" of smaller boats.

Currently, of the smaller used catamarans on the market the Edel Cat 35 seems most available. Does any know the boat well enough to comment on its qualifications as a blue water boat? Diesel option vs. gas auxilary? etc.

Thank you.

 

[dickh]

Have you considered the Wharram range of catamarans? More basic, but many have done long voyages - see their website - www.wharram.com for more info.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[Robin2]

As with keelboats, may small cats have made long passages. there have been circumnavigations in Heavenly Twins which are 28 feet (I think). My cat is a Flica design by Richard Woods and he says that one of them made the trip from UK to Australia.

Go to the multihull websites. Richards is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sailingcatamarans.com>http://www.sailingcatamarans.com</A>

Friends have a Wharram for sale - about 30 feet - lovely boat, very fast. Send a PM if you want details.

Have fun, good luck.

 

[oldsaltoz]

G'day Flyfisher and welcome to the YBW forums, we love new blood here.

However, I'm a bit concerned about your plan to sail blue water in a craft not designed or set up for it.

Yes, small craft have made blue water voyages, some didn't make it and got very little publicity.

If you wanted to take the family for a driving holiday would you hire a Mini moke, or something with a little more room and protection?

If you plan to sail open water use a craft designed for it, you will sleep better and perhaps longer, this also applies to the rest of the family.

A cat will fine provided it has good underbridge clearance and is built with blue water cruising in mind.

Take care andavagoodweekend............Old Salt Oz

 

[kgi]

take latitude 38 with a pinch of salt, the oceanic has circumnavigated via the capes and the heavenly twins have been round as well, the ht is 26 feet and the oceanic is thirty, the key to a cruising cat is to keep it as light as possible, eg why carry 200 feet of chain when you only draw four feet? my cat draws three feet and i carry sixty feet of chain, thats still considered excessive by some!!!!, fit a desalinator, it will save you a load of weight, forget the air conditioning, and the freezer unit just save as much weight as possible, and if its not fitted it can,t break, can it? i cannot see any reason that this boat, in the right hands, shouldn't be as safe as any other cat of a similar size, my cats thirty feet and it has now done over 20,000 miles, crossed the atlantic, and been caught out in winds over 45, i personally do not have a problem with small multihulls, its the people who think bigger is better (safer), and who want to load it with all the bells and whistles, that make the boat potentially unseaworthy, if i can help you in any way, drop me a PM.............cheers........keith

 

[ponapay]

Many cats have circumnavigated, that does not imply that it was either safe or sensible so to do.

IMHO a cat is unsuitable for blue water work of almost any type unless they can garantee that they will not encounter weather that could not capsize them. They are basically unstable at angles of heel often encountered by monohulls.

They may be great fun but much caution is needed.

 

[davidbains]

I have sailed a Kelsall 39 tri for 26 years now. I have closely examined several Edel cat 35's and
IMHO they are one of the more sensible and well designed and built medium sized cats available.
I particularly like the small deck cabin past which the crew can gain access to the hull cabins or mast and forenetting. This daycabin has standing headroom with a decent chart table and small galley and dinette. It's the ideal place to keep watch in shelter and I wish my boat had one. in fact it's the feature which most suits this boat to blue water cruising. The hulls too are surprisingly roomy as bedrooms and bathrooms. At 35ft this boat will be easily handled by one person, important when most long distance cruising is accomplished by couples effectively sailing single handed. When pundits say 35ft cats are unsuited to blue water cruising they presumably mean a boat of this size could be overwhelmed in a winter storm. Well no boat is safe in those conditions and blue water cruising usually means seasonal or trade wind sailing. Cats lie well to sea anchors or drogues if you are caught out in a summer storm. The lack of healing means the crew tire less quickly. Many circumnavigations have been made in Prout 37's. I can only supppose that the number of Edel 35's for sale indicate that people are seduced by the in my view excessive accommodation in full width deck cabins which detract from sailing performance and mean long engine hours in light winds or else very high and expensive rigs. The Edel has a modest rig yet is considered to have good performance, the ideal combination. Where do you intend sailing?
David Bains

 

[Robin2]

I have to disagree with this. It is quite inapproriate to compare angles of heel between cats and monohulls. Monohulls are designed to heel and cats are not.

Monohulls are usually knocked down by waves - probably because the underwater motion affecting the keel is in the opposite direction to and therefore assists the surface water direction to overturn the boat.

A multihull has a shallow draft and should be less affected by the underwater forces.

Of course too much sail can cause a multihull to capsize - but that is within the control of the skipper.

 

[flyfisher]

David thanks for your comments on the Edel Cat. A couple of my concerns are:

(1) I am 6' 1" tall and wonder if I'll have headroom at the galley?

(2) if we buy the boat in the Med and sail to the Caribbean and get caught in unexpected bad weather, will the boat handle it?

I think I just responded to your query about sailing software and Macs. Virtual PC really is worth the money. I've been teaching for over 10 years in a dual platform (PC and Mac) computer lab which has Macs running Virtual PC. PC programs do run a bit slower on Virtual PC but the difference is negligible.

 

[kgi]

sailing to the carribean from the Med ?....the hardest section is from the straits out to the canaries after that you have cracked it, end of septemberto mid october is a good time to go to the canaries, and leave from the canaries aroundearly december (if you want chrissy in the carribean), if you do get caught in abit of bad weather, just remember to keep the bows light and don't go to fast, these are only personal opinions but they work for me...........keith

 

[davidbains]

Don't worry about headroom, I think you'll just squeeze in. Anyway you'll have to visit a few to find out.
If you're worried about heavy weather buy a parachute sea anchor and practice deploying it in moderate weather. I carry a parachute sea anchor and a parachute drogue and a home made tyre drogue and I have never used them. In really bad weather we have just sailed with a storm jib only. Funnily enough downwind my tri feels good with just a double reefed main and no headsail which I didn't really expect. IMHO sailing very slowly upwind into a gale is fine, breakages occurr because people don't slow down enough. Downwind the danger is surfing too fast and running the bows under, but a cat is less prone to this than a tri.
Med to the Carribean is no problem in a professionally built and conservatively sailed cat.
Most of the critics of multihulls totally ignore the danger of sinking in a monohull. Also for a mono to be able to recover from a 90dgree knockdown it has to sail half capsized most of the time.
If multis had been the traditional craft in Europe and some designer proposed now a new craft that needed to carry it's own weight in ballast to remain at merely 30dgrees most of the time, they would be treated with more derision than multi fans have to put up with. I know a multi cannot heel safely as much as a mono, but they DONT.
You will like the all round view you have sitting dry in an Edel cat.

Thanks for the advice about virtual PC. it may come to that. In fact the previous version of Maxsea runs fine under Mac OS9. It's just opening the charts after typing in the codes I'm struggling with. There's more sailing and radio related software for Macs than many people think. An I Book is great on board. Doesn't even need an inverter just 24 volts.

Contact me on david.bains@virgin.net if you need any more info on multis. I have kept my tri in the Med since 89. I may pick your brains on computing directly!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Hi

popany writes

> IMHO a cat is unsuitable for blue water work of almost any type unless they can garantee that they will not encounter weather that could not capsize them.

Ah, that old bugbear. Cats are generally unsinkable. In the unlikely event that they do capsize you have a nice stable raft. If a monohull inverts and the rig doesn't get destroyed in the roll and if the tons of lead suddenly over your head doesn't bash its way through the hull and you avoid the flooding that comes with inverting then you might be OK when it comes back up again.

Small cats have survived hurricanes quite nicely. As Tom Frith Jones writes - If you drop a cow 10ft it probably won't survive but a mouse will prbably get up and scurry away without any ill effects. Because cats are lighter (my 32 footer is less than 3 tons all up) they move with the waves more easily. They need less sail to drive them, handling the sails becomes easier, the gear is less stressed and so on.

Sure, leave full sail up in 40 knots of wind and over they go. Sail sensibly and a cat will make a better liveaboard home than a monohull. The motion is easier, the deck stays level, you can put your tea or beer down without having to secure it in place...... and so it goes on.

I'd be far more worried about sailing across the channel in a monhull that doesn't have collision bulkheads and watertight compartments than sailing across the Atlantic in a cat. I wonder how many folk set off each weekend in a boat that, were it to hit a container, would go down in seconds.

Regards



Fred

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

 

[ponapay]

That still does not help you if you are inside an upside down. It just prolongs the agony!

The motion that I have felt on the (few) cats I have been on has been jerky, abrubt and not very seakindly - thats one reason they have to have light gear. I do accept that because of their lightness they can fall further before breaking but not that they are safer or better in a rough seaway.

 

[Guest]

ponapay writes

> That still does not help you if you are inside an upside down. It just prolongs the agony!

Indeed? Would you rather be in an inflatable liferaft or an upside down, highly visible, boat sized raft? If the worst comes to the worst you can even lash the liferaft to the cat. More boats were found abandoned after FastNet than liferafts recovered.

Sure, a cat has a different motion and it doesn't have the weight and momentum to punch through waves or sail past dead air. However, you get more room, you don't get the dreadful sick making roll of a monohull. You don't need to gimble your cooker or only half fill your mugs with tea.

A cat, sailed properly is more comfortable, roomier, safer, faster and requires less effort to manage than a monohull. What more can I say? Having sailed cats and monohulls fairly extensively I can put up with a monohull - I'd rather be on a cat.

Regards




Fred

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

 

[ponapay]

twohapence writes:

'More boats were found abandoned after FastNet than liferafts recovered.'

You prove my point! Yes I would rather be in a monohull still upright and afloat, not in my liferaft - even if strapped to the bottom of my upside down cat.

But I doubt I will convince you and you certainly won't convince me - so lets call a halt.