Safety lines - 2 or 3 clip?

Magnum

Magnum

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We are just about to order our first safety lines. I was quite taken by the Spinlock range at LIBS, especially the soft cow hitch attachment, but need some advice on whether to choose 2 or 3 clip lines (actually 1 or 2 clip taking into account the cow hitch).

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I understand that the 3 clip version allows you to always stay clipped on when moving around the vessel (which sounds very sensible) but I'm unsure why the non elasticated line is shorter than the elasticated one? Maybe the short one is to be used when stationary?

Would appreciate any advice :)
 
The three-clip ones are most useful working on the foredeck. I've one three-clip and three two-clip ones on the boat.

One will be shorter than the other so that you don't end up dragging the spare around the deck. You'd typically only use both when transferring from one jackstay to the other at the bow.

I'm in two minds about the cow hitch. Less bulky stuff attached to the D ring on the harness but you lose the ability to unclip at the harness end.
 
Regarding the cow hitch, I see your point, but at least you could not unclip your line by mistake. Plus the Deckvest is supplied with a readily accessible cutter just inside the jacket.
 
I think the idea of the short one is that you attach it while working say at the mast and then you can use it to give ou greater stability.

I have rather gone off three clip harnesses, as I find the third clip can just get in the way - it tends to spend its time clipped on to your harness.

A sewn loop is unusual on an adult harness as it stops you being able to unclip at that end. That has two problems, firstly in case of a knockdown you could be secured to the boat under the water and not be able to release yourself. Secondly when going below I like to leave the harness attached to the boat and release it from the harness once in the cabin - reversing the process on the way back - but that could be because the clipping on points on my boat are not too easy to get to from the companionway
 
Also agree with the three clip option. Mine enables me to make a long line or shorten up and be able to transfer as described by others. Doesn't look like the Spinlock allows you to do that.

We always have harness lines attached to jackets on the theory that if it is rough enough or dark enough to wear a jacket it is the right option to have a harness attached. To make it work you also needs good hardpoints in the cockpit for helm/crew to attach to...
 
Just a thought!

Magnum said:
Regarding the cow hitch, I see your point, but at least you could not unclip your line by mistake. Plus the Deckvest is supplied with a readily accessible cutter just inside the jacket.
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Check out some of the 79 fasnet casualties.

They had lines attached permanently to their harnesses 7 when boats were turtled, were unable to unfasten.

Could you be certain you could cut it if submerged & disorientated?
 
bedouin said:
Secondly when going below I like to leave the harness attached to the boat and release it from the harness once in the cabin - reversing the process on the way back...
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I second that - being able to unclip and clip on when below makes the discipline of always being clipped on when you leave the safety of the companionway second-nature at night or in bad weather.

Similarly, having two clips at the other end of the line means you never need to be unclipped in nasty weather. One of the leads can be quite short, as with the Spinlock line, that way there's less spare line to get in the way.
 
The clip at the wearer end became standard after the sinking of Morning Cloud where the sinking boat dragged the crew down and two were drowned.

The only reason for having two attachments is if you anticipate having to change clip-on points after leaving the cockpit. My jackstay runs from one side of the cockpit, round the mast and back to the other side so I never need to unclip while on deck.
 
I have found that I have three requirements with these lines.

1. That I can clip or unclip FAST. So modern safety clips with a cross bar are out. They are a fiddle to use and therefore dangerous in practice. I go for the best and easiest snap shakle I can find.

2. Make your own line! A stiff awkward proprietary webbing line is unpleasant to use and has a knack of getting in the way. I go for soft nylon line, three strand, not big but it is many times stronger than need. Then I do my own splices, carefully and well.

3. I prefer 3ft and 6 ft, ie 1m and 2m lengths. I can then attach at 1m, 2m and 3m distances from a fixed point.

You may find you prefer fixed points to jack stays. I have seen others, and done it myself, who have fallen and slid along the deck or cabin top propelled by a wave. You can easily get very hurt on all the things that stick out! Ok I and they stayed on top, but I would rather be fixed.

If you make nice, soft, user-friendly lines, Beware! They may go ashore with your crew and you then have to make some more. It keeps on happening!

;) Mike
 
dmmbruce said:
1. That I can clip or unclip FAST. So modern safety clips with a cross bar are out. They are a fiddle to use and therefore dangerous in practice. I go for the best and easiest snap shakle I can find.
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I only use lines with Gibb hooks on the end. I met an RYA instructor who could flick open the other hooks (Wichard) remotely with just a quick flick of the line, something that could happen naturally when you least want it.

I would not want to trust my life to a snap shackle. I've seen sufficient of them go whilst racing.
 
dt4134 said:
I only use lines with Gibb hooks on the end. I met an RYA instructor who could flick open the other hooks (Wichard) remotely with just a quick flick of the line, something that could happen naturally when you least want it.

I would not want to trust my life to a snap shackle. I've seen sufficient of them go whilst racing.
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My wife & I both tried the Wichard clips soon after they came out and found them extremely difficult to use - in fact my wife found them impossible to open and I found them almost impossible. So we have kept to the Gibb type clips which are very easy to use and are failsafe. All the safety lines we have are the two hook type which we prefer. I would never use the lines with a loop at one end due to the difficulty in releasing/cutting them in an emergency.
 
There must be a market for these harnesses. Spinlock are usually pretty damn good with their gear and I doubt they'd have made these without having done some research into what people wanted first.
 
PetiteFleur said:
My wife & I both tried the Wichard clips soon after they came out and found them extremely difficult to use - in fact my wife found them impossible to open and I found them almost impossible. So we have kept to the Gibb type clips which are very easy to use and are failsafe.
Click to expand...

Ditto.
 
Magnum said:
Regarding the cow hitch, I see your point, but at least you could not unclip your line by mistake. Plus the Deckvest is supplied with a readily accessible cutter just inside the jacket.
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I have the deckvest Life Jacket hanging up to my right in the forward cabin of the 77ft yacht I am delivering. It has the cow's hitch with two clips (3 points) I also carry a handy knife at all times with me to safely cut the cow's hitch end if required.

The Elastic is genius works so well and the thigh straps are so much better than the traditional crotch straps.

Buy the 3 point one don't even think about buying anything else. My advice. Otherwise speak to the RNLI and ask for there opinion.
 
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It's a great plan till you've forgotten your knife or you are being thrown about so wildly that faffing with a knife is not an option. You do it your way. I'll do it mine.
 
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