Safety lines - 2 or 3 clip?

[Conachair]

I use the 3-clip type shown on a small yacht - mostly single-handed.
The Problem I have with the clips shown is that the jack-stay webbing catches and jams in the safety clip as it is pulled sideways when I go forward. I have to stop and free it.
What is the solution ?
Go back to the simple spring clip ?
Use a double thickness webbing ?
I don't want to go back to wire or rope jack-stays.
Ken

I had the same problem, though screwgate caribiners seemed slightly better. The jackstays rarely get used, I really think it was actually more dangerous as all your concentration goes to stopping the clip from getting jammed instead of concentrating on hand holds and staying on the boat. If it was *really* bad think I'd be on my hands and knees clipped onto anything and everything along the way. I use a climbing harness with a selection of climbing strops onboard but usually only a gri gri and 2m line.

 

[scotty123]

My understanding is that Spinlock take the position that it's hard to undo a clip that's under load, while dangling upside down with your head underwater. Therefore they adhere firmly to the cut-the-tether theory and provide a small hook-shaped knife with each lifejacket.

Pete

"dangling upside down with your head underwater."

And you'd still have the presence of mind & physical flexibility to reach for your knife & then be sure your only cutting the tether?

Must be SBS then!

 

[prv]

You can still cut the tether with clip fastening though.

Yep - it's Spinlock's position, not mine. Personally I have a snapshackle in the middle, a long and a short tether with normal double-action clips on them, and a loop for the clips to go on when not in use (stowing the spare clip on your harness D ring makes any quick-release system somewhat pointless). Have to admit this is all theoretical so far, as I only made it up this winter and haven't used it yet.

Pete

 

[Jamesuk]

My understanding is that Spinlock take the position that it's hard to undo a clip that's under load, while dangling upside down with your head underwater. Therefore they adhere firmly to the cut-the-tether theory and provide a small hook-shaped knife with each lifejacket.

Pete

I spoke to Spinlock today and there position is:

"The safety tether should never leave the life jacket" hence the Cow's hitch.

As for the two point or 3 point that said that was all down to personal preference.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

The '79 Fastnet was over 30 years ago now - stuff has changed since then. For one, I'd like to know just how difficult it is to cut a tether, possibly with one hand only? Those lines look awful tough. The clip design is different too. They were usually just crude spring loaded carabiners then, complete with a notch on the gate that always seemed to trap the line. The clips seem to be much better designed these days.

 

[prv]

"dangling upside down with your head underwater."

And you'd still have the presence of mind & physical flexibility to reach for your knife & then be sure your only cutting the tether?

Nope, I think that's a terrible idea. That's why I was careful to report it as Spinlock's position, not mine. I believe they've published it as their reason for only offering cow-hitch tethers, which I don't think anyone else does except for children.

I hope never to be in the dangling-upside-down position in the first place - on my list this winter is to rig a means to run jackstays down the centreline, and the shorter of my tethers is sized to match. Should it ever happen, I have an easily-identified toggle which undoes the snapshackle on the tether.

Pete

 

[Twister_Ken]

I spoke to Spinlock today and there position is:

"The safety tether should never leave the life jacket" hence the Cow's hitch.

Bit of a nuisance when you're rowing ashore to the pub.

 

[scotty123]

I spoke to Spinlock today and there position is:

"The safety tether should never leave the life jacket" hence the Cow's hitch.

As for the two point or 3 point that said that was all down to personal preference.

Even when the LJ is attached to a body, as in above example of dangling?

 

[Jamesuk]

Bit of a nuisance when you're rowing ashore to the pub.

I generally don't wear a life jacket when I row! But I can see your point. But then wearing a life jacket is a nuisance compared to just wearing a harness.

Although you could swap the Life Jacket to a buoyancy aid right!

 

[Allan]

I use the 3-clip type shown on a small yacht - mostly single-handed.
The Problem I have with the clips shown is that the jack-stay webbing catches and jams in the safety clip as it is pulled sideways when I go forward. I have to stop and free it.
What is the solution ?
Go back to the simple spring clip ?
Use a double thickness webbing ?
I don't want to go back to wire or rope jack-stays.
Ken

A friend of mine in France had welded rings on his jackstays. He clipped onto them as they would run freely. I never had to clip on while sailing on his boat so can't say how effective they are.
Allan

 

[bedouin]

I spoke to Spinlock today and there position is:

"The safety tether should never leave the life jacket" hence the Cow's hitch.

Actually I don't even agree with that. I think it is quite acceptable to have multiple tethers.
For example when all I am doing is going from cockpit to cabin and back, the tether stays attached to the boat and not to me. However if I felt I did need to go forward I might prefer a three point tether...

 

[Twister_Ken]

I generally don't wear a life jacket when I row! But I can see your point. But then wearing a life jacket is a nuisance compared to just wearing a harness.

Although you could swap the Life Jacket to a buoyancy aid right!

Considering that of the few yachties that drown, a high percentage apparently do it by falling out or capsizing tenders, it's probably not wise to take your LJ off when getting into one. And I'm not going to carry and LJ and a buoyancy aid!

 

[Twister_Ken]

A friend of mine in France had welded rings on his jackstays. He clipped onto them as they would run freely. I never had to clip on while sailing on his boat so can't say how effective they are.
Allan

I like that idea!

 

[prv]

Considering that of the few yachties that drown, a high percentage apparently do it by falling out or capsizing tenders, it's probably not wise to take your LJ off when getting into one.

I dig out a LJ and put it on when getting into a tender

Pete

 

[Jamesuk]

Considering that of the few yachties that drown, a high percentage apparently do it by falling out or capsizing tenders, it's probably not wise to take your LJ off when getting into one. And I'm not going to carry and LJ and a buoyancy aid!

A friend of mine refers to those as "drunken idiots who deserved to die." He also believes that all the people who have kids and expect the government to pay for them should also die. Like that 29 year old grand father! Each to there own.

 

[dt4134]

The '79 Fastnet was over 30 years ago now - stuff has changed since then. For one, I'd like to know just how difficult it is to cut a tether, possibly with one hand only?

There was a MoB tried it and failed last summer on the way back from Cork Week. If she'd had the spinlock leg straps she'd have died, but she managed to wriggle out of the life jacket and bob about in mod-rough seas in the Celtic Sea for a couple of hours till rescued.

Reported in detail on here and Sailing Anarchy. I posted the link a couple of dozen posts above.

 

[prv]

Considering that of the few yachties that drown, a high percentage apparently do it by falling out or capsizing tenders

A friend of mine refers to those as "drunken idiots who deserved to die."

The only time I've scared myself in a tender, nearly falling out, was on the way to the pub. So I can refute at least the first of those

Pete

 

[Woodlouse]

"dangling upside down with your head underwater."

And you'd still have the presence of mind & physical flexibility to reach for your knife & then be sure your only cutting the tether?

Must be SBS then!

I think in that situation you'd be more likely to succeed in cutting the tether than you would unclipping it.

Strikes me it's just that a small hook-shaped knife is cheaper than a decent gate-lock carbine hook. It's called 'value engineering'

I think going by the quality, and prices of Spinlock gear this is a ludicrous idea.


I can see Spinlocks reasoning behind a cow hitch instead of a clip. In any emergency situation you need to let the line go it's most likely to be quicker and easier to cut it than try and unclip it. And if the lines are tied to the lifejackets then you know they are going to remain attached, and not get unclipped and left lying about and/or lost.

A cow hitch will also be lighter, more comfortable and less likely to do you an injury such as skinning you knuckles when grinding a winch.

As I said before. Spinlock would have put a lot of thought into replacing the clip with a cow hitch. They were not born yesterday and make some of the best kit on the market.

 

[jonjo]

In any emergency situation you need to let the line go it's most likely to be quicker and easier to cut it than try and unclip it.

Not on the planet I inhabit.

Does anyone recall how the lady who went overboard the Irish Sea last year freed herself from her overboard tow/drowning situation?

 

[jonjo]

To the OP I will add:

On the few occasions motion has been so violent I needed a second hook I just used a spare line. On the most memorable occasion I actually needed the second line while in the cockpit, routine foredeck work does not require a second line it is just another thing to get wrapped up in by accident.

The greatest risk with safety equipment is that it is not used, the extra encumbrance of a second dangling line and hook could be such a deterrent.