Safety equipment

[William_H]

May be of interest that our local (west Oz) authorities have posted new safety equipment requirements. (mandatory) of interest is the requirement for EPIRB/PLB to have GPS and that electronic visual distress signals are acceptable in lieu of flares. A list off accepted types can be found under the heading "Flares and EVDS requirements.
I know requirements are not so tight in UK but do represent a standard that might be seen as being responsible to comply with. ol'will Safety equipment changes now apply

 

[ylop]

Curiously they seem to have downgraded a more basic requirement:

Skipper are no longer required to carry a fire extinguisher, anchor, bilge pump or bailer.

Am I reading it correctly that your epirb/plb and flares requirement also applies to any small unregistered vessel (windsurfs, dinghies, etc) operating >400m from shore? Presumably that must include some races? Do they have an exemption where there is safety cover or do your local boats actually comply?

 

[Stemar]

Interesting that fire extinguishers are no longer required. I've often wondered about the effectiveness of small dry powder extinguishers on the very rare occasions when it all hits the fan. Do they really do much more than a bucket of water would? Yes, I know a bucket of water won't do any good if a quantity of diesel is alight, but diesel's pretty hard to set fire to without some sort of wick and, in that case, the bucket would work. Electrical fires? Sure, mains and seawater are a bad combination, but a short is soon dealt with by the off switch and the bucket will deal with anything left alight.

FWIW, the only time I ever used an extinguisher in anger was when servicing a rally and a car came in well alight having exploded its batteries. It took several good-sized extinguishers to deal with that one.

I lied, this was the early 70s, and it sprayed its oil all over a red-hot exhaust

 

[rogerthebodger]

Thank you, William,

We still have draconian regulations and inspections every year at a cost to the boat owner.

How are these requirements enforced in WA, do you have a regulator boat inspection or is it just on a ad hock basis like being stopped when on passage and stopped for inspection.

What action is taken if a boat does not comply.

We are required to carry fire extinguishers, and they must be serviced every year at a specified service agent.

Having a steel boat it I did have a fire not as catastrophic as on a GRP or wooden boat

 

[wonkywinch]

I noticed horseshoe buoys not on the list, together with that strange Aussie rule that it has to be secured to the boat (according to the charter co in Airlie Beach).

 

[lustyd]

Do they really do much more than a bucket of water would?

Where will you get your bucket of water from when the companionway is alight?


Did consumer EPIRBs ever not have GPS? Can't imagine any still in service don't have this.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Where will you get your bucket of water from when the companionway is alight?

From the sea or from the gally sink if available I could also be a bucket of water from the head if necessary

Did consumer EPIRBs ever not have GPS? Can't imagine any still in service don't have this.

I have a pre-GPS EPIRB as well as an EPIRB with a GPS

 

[justanothersailboat]

It seems bizarre to mandate only the most advanced forms of electronic distress signal equipment... and no fire extinguisher, anchor, bilge pump or bailer?!

I wouldn't regard this as "a standard that might be seen as being responsible to comply with" at all! These regulators are utterly detached from reality.

An electronic bleater lets me attempt to summon rescue if I have not managed to avoid or tackle a problem myself. A fine thing to have for some people in some situations as a very last resort, but if the fundamentals of coping with minor problems before they become major aren't right, I'm far more likely to need it. And if I were in serious danger it might well be dangerous to any potential rescuer, so if I were on my own I am not sure whether or not I could bear to trigger it.

 

[Wansworth]

Basic equipment in a Spanish boat was a heliograph…….worked if sunny!

 

[rogerthebodger]

Basic equipment in a Spanish boat was a heliograph…….worked if sunny!

I have one in my grab bag for use if I ever end up in my life raft

 

[lustyd]

From the sea or from the gally sink if available I could also be a bucket of water from the head if necessary

I think you're being optimistic. Surely better to just have an extinguisher available than try to extract water from the toilet into a bucket somehow. Have you ever tried to fill a whole bucket from the galley sink? The boat would burn to the waterline in the time it would take to fill halfway!

 

[justanothersailboat]

Heliograph... small, light, cheap, not many failure modes. Sounds a good choice in sunny places. In English waters I might carry on placing more weight on the handheld radio.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I think you're being optimistic. Surely better to just have an extinguisher available than try to extract water from the toilet into a bucket somehow. Have you ever tried to fill a whole bucket from the galley sink? The boat would burn to the waterline in the time it would take to fill halfway!

You may be correct, but my first action would be to bet a bucket of sea water from outside my boat to douse the flames from outside the boat.

If the companionway was blocked, I would use the for hatch to get out of the boat.

Fire extinguishers have a limited capacity the ocean has much more cooling capacity available

 

[Stemar]

Where will you get your bucket of water from when the companionway is alight?

If the companionway steps are alight enough to prevent me going out that way, It's more than a kilo of powder is going to deal with anyway. It'll be exit stage left via the forehatch, very glad the flubber's blown up and ready to go.

Actually, on Jazzcat, we don't have steps, it's a simple door, with nothing to cause a fire anywhere near.

Incidentally, I do carry a few extinguishers, including a two kilo job, but the OP set me thinking about how useful they'd be in reality.

 

[Neeves]

In Australia each State mandates its own marine safety requirements. The requirements for NSW Essential safety equipment are different to those of Western Australia.

In over 20 years of yacht ownership in NSW I have never been asked to produce any of the equipment mandated. The only item strictly enforced is the wearing of life jackets in dinghies, effectively at all times. Strangely our Water Police do stop motor boats, usually smaller ones, (but not yachts) and demand to see that the vessel is carrying lifejackets for the number of people on the vessel. I don't know the current rules in HK but in about 10 years of yacht ownership there - I was never inspected nor requested to show I had any safety equipment (at all).

Jonathan

 

[justanothersailboat]

I don't see the fire extinguishers as being for putting out a big blaze. They're either to stop something very small from developing, or maybe to try to briefly subdue something mid-sized long enough for me to get well clear or help someone else get well clear. Wouldn't want to be without them, wouldn't expect too much.

 

[rogerthebodger]

In Australia each State mandates its own marine safety requirements. The requirements for NSW Essential safety equipment are different to those of Western Australia.

In over 20 years of yacht ownership in NSW I have never been asked to produce any of the equipment mandated. The only item strictly enforced is the wearing of life jackets in dinghies, effectively at all times. Strangely our Water Police do stop motor boats, usually smaller ones, (but not yachts) and demand to see that the vessel is carrying lifejackets for the number of people on the vessel. I don't know the current rules in HK but in about 10 years of yacht ownership there - I was never inspected nor requested to show I had any safety equipment (at all).

Jonathan

Thanks for the comments, Jonathan

We have a formal inspection every year for equipment and hull condition by law for which we are charged a fee for the inspection.

Our port police do a similar inspection to your water police with no charge if all in order but can issue a summons if the boat does not comply as any other law requirement like car not road worthy of speeding.

I take it that when your water police stop motor boats and find all is in order the boat is allowed to continue but if found not in order would be returned to port for any deficiencies to be rectified.

The interesting fact is that anyway it's the owner/skipper of the boat who will be held accountable as with any incident at sea

 

[ylop]

Curious what happens when auzzies sail between states? Do you have to comply with the local state or do you comply with your state of registration? If the later is that based on your residence or is it like flags of convenience and people shop around?

Did consumer EPIRBs ever not have GPS? Can't imagine any still in service don't have this.

both EPIRBs and PLBs originally only transmitted and relied on multiple recipient satellites then triangulating your position. I think it’s only in the last 10-12yrs that GPS has become standard in the lower priced units and probably less than that since you could buy a non GPS unit if you really wanted to save a few quid. Given the battery life it’s unlikely anyone has an in date unit that doesn’t have GPS but you’d be pissed off if you just spent the money on a new battery and it was no longer legal - which is presumably why the gps rule doesn’t come in until 2028.

 

[thinwater]

If the companionway steps are alight enough to prevent me going out that way, It's more than a kilo of powder is going to deal with anyway. It'll be exit stage left via the forehatch, very glad the flubber's blown up and ready to go.

Actually, on Jazzcat, we don't have steps, it's a simple door, with nothing to cause a fire anywhere near.

Incidentally, I do carry a few extinguishers, including a two kilo job, but the OP set me thinking about how useful they'd be in reality.

If the tender is lashed over the forehatch, as many do, you're not going anywhere.

This is a UK forum and you may not hav heard this US story. If we're talking about fire, this dive boat had all of the passengers trapped below decks by fire. is an eye opener. 33 died in the bunkroom. The most likely cause of the fire was charging phones etc. located near the only mean of egress.

There need to be two ways out.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAR2003.pdf

 

[rogerthebodger]

If the tender is lashed over the forehatch, as many do, you're not going anywhere.

This is a UK forum and you may not hav heard this US story. If we're talking about fire, this dive boat had all of the passengers trapped below decks by fire. is an eye opener. 33 died in the bunkroom. The most likely cause of the fire was charging phones etc. located near the only mean of egress.

There need to be two ways out.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAR2003.pdf

This is why there are others hatches that lead to on deck that are not covered by any deck equipment.

In fact, I have 6 deck hatches' that anyone can get through by standing on internal fitments.

The only cabin without an escape hatch is the aft cabin which is next to the companionway.