Sadler 32-a good buy?

Tranona said:
If you look at the examples I gave earlier of Sadler 32s that had been re-engined you find a very different picture from the one you paint. 7 out of the 8 chose not to fit the smallest, cheapest engine, but chose 29hp engines, 4 Yanmars and 3 Nannis, plus from the descriptions of the work used new installation components.

You can do this type of job at lower cost than the £7k+ suggested, but only by using a small engine (or a secondhand one if you can find one that is suitable) only replacing what is absolutely necessary and doing it all yourself. That I would suggest is not the approach that most people take, for all sorts of reasons.
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It's a small easily driven boat, the only reason people fit even 25hp is that the price difference is minimal over the 3 cylinder 20hp. The manufacturers ditched the big engines and fitted both 20 and 18 hp units.

Don't harken to me, read posts 27 and 35 from owners.

I know sailing is not the top of your agenda but the OP could gain himself 3 places in his club races if he had to ditch the overweight engine ;-)
 
doug748 said:
It's a small easily driven boat, the only reason people fit even 25hp is that the price difference is minimal over the 3 cylinder 20hp. The manufacturers ditched the big engines and fitted both 20 and 18 hp units.

Don't harken to me, read posts 27 and 35 from owners.

I know sailing is not the top of your agenda but the OP could gain himself 3 places in his club races if he had to ditch the overweight engine ;-)
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Weight difference is minimal, and certainly not enough to make any difference to sailing performance.

You could not be more wrong about the choice of engine for this boat, The designer chose a 30hp engine - even to the extent of collaborating with Watermota to produce a diesel conversion for the Ford engine. Sadler were the first and major customer for this engine. They only changed to lower hp engines when the Ford engine turned out to be a dog and the Bukh was only only sensible engine available. There was no modern lightweight 30hp engine available.

As you will see from the FACTS that I gave (rather than your whimsical ramblings), most owners of this boat who have re-engined have chosen a 30 hp engine.

Nothing to do with being more or less keen on "sailing" - just choosing an engine appropriate to the boat.
 
Tranona said:
Yes - if you are happy with a 14hp engine. However it is normal to fit a 25 or 28 to a Sadler 32 and as pvb says the engine alone will be over £5k so my £7k is realistic. Think you are a bit out of touch with real prices. Lot of work replacing that huge 4 cylinder Ford engine with a Beta.
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I put a new 18hp engine in my Sadler 29 and when you included all the bits and labour it was 7k. However we never looked back the original Bukh would have bankrupt me if we carried on keeping it in service.....
 
Tranona said:
Yes - if you are happy with a 14hp engine. However it is normal to fit a 25 or 28 to a Sadler 32 and as pvb says the engine alone will be over £5k ...........
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Your capacity for opening your mouth and putting your foot in it is legion.

Only in Tranonaland could a 3 cylinder 20hp engine on a 4ton boat with a 24 foot waterline be described as "small and cheap".
 
doug748 said:
Your capacity for opening your mouth and putting your foot in it is legion.

Only in Tranonaland could a 3 cylinder 20hp engine on a 4ton boat with a 24 foot waterline be described as "small and cheap".
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The designer of this boat specified a 30 hp engine. A lower hp engine (as I explained) was only fitted because there was not a suitable engine of the correct size available when the original proved unsatisfactory.

Now that good lightweight 30hp engines are available,sensible owners have replaced the underpowered engine with one of the correct size when they re-engined.

I am afraid it is you that lives in a fantasy world that does not recognise reality.
 
You seem to increasingly pick up daft ideas and then cling to them to the point of making yourself look a right tater.

It's like watching a drowning man trying to save a mangle.

That's mi lot. Good evening.
 
pvb said:
That's interesting, bearing in mind that Beta's Sep 2015 price list gives a price of almost £6000 for a Beta 20! Was your offer from Beta, or from a Beta dealer? I can't see why anyone would list such extortionate prices compared with what they're prepared to accept.
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Beta's prices at Boat Shows seem to depend on how they are feeling and whether they like your shoes. Which is one reason I will not be considering them when I re-engine my boat.
 
Have to disagree that 18/20 HP is underpowered with the right prop. It may only be just enough, but it is enough in my experience. (Although I admit if I had a disaster and had to re-engine I would go for 25HP for the extra margin in punching adverse tides). I seem to remember Snooks of this parish who got a Beta 30 reported the cockpit flooded under full power. I have been on a Sadler 32 with probably the biggest engine, a decidedly one-off marinised VW Passat engine (55HP in this application) which would barely touch 5 knots for some reason, maybe weed, maybe wrong prop.
 
doug748 said:
You seem to increasingly pick up daft ideas and then cling to them to the point of making yourself look a right tater.

It's like watching a drowning man trying to save a mangle.

That's mi lot. Good evening.
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Not sure you realise the level of your ignorance.

You seem stuck in the 1970s and can't accept that the world has moved on and people have different expectations about an engine in a sailing boat. Where do you get the idea that the weight of a 30hp engine will affect sailing performance? It is 35kg more than a modern 20hp - less than half an extra crew member, and actually significantly lighter than the Bukh it replaced.

Almost every re-engine of a Sadler 32 has chosen the larger engine to replace the original underpowered one. Are they are wrong because they don't do what you claim?

I am afraid that you that has the daft ideas (as is often the case) and seem unable to accept that you are out of step with reality even when confronted with solid factual evidence.
 
eddystone said:
Have to disagree that 18/20 HP is underpowered with the right prop. It may only be just enough, but it is enough in my experience. (Although I admit if I had a disaster and had to re-engine I would go for 25HP for the extra margin in punching adverse tides). I seem to remember Snooks of this parish who got a Beta 30 reported the cockpit flooded under full power. I have been on a Sadler 32 with probably the biggest engine, a decidedly one-off marinised VW Passat engine (55HP in this application) which would barely touch 5 knots for some reason, maybe weed, maybe wrong prop.
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Even with the correct prop the Bukh and Volvo 2002 are marginal. agree that a 25 would be OK - in fact this is what I suggested Snooks should fit. However, as you see from the figures I gave based on boats that have actually been re-engined is that most owners have chosen the 28hp. If you want a Volvo or a Yanmar there is no 25, just a 20 and a 30. So, of the popular new engines you can only get 25 from Beta and Nanni. The difference in price is only around £150, and either fits comfortably in the space, so not surprising that people choose the larger. There is no significant penalty apart from the initial cost and it enables you to run at lower rpm for cruising. i would imagine most of the people who changed their engine would have had experience with the smaller engine so the decision to fit the larger size was a conscious one.
 
eddystone said:
Have to disagree that 18/20 HP is underpowered with the right prop. It may only be just enough, but it is enough in my experience. (Although I admit if I had a disaster and had to re-engine I would go for 25HP for the extra margin in punching adverse tides). I seem to remember Snooks of this parish who got a Beta 30 reported the cockpit flooded under full power. I have been on a Sadler 32 with probably the biggest engine, a decidedly one-off marinised VW Passat engine (55HP in this application) which would barely touch 5 knots for some reason, maybe weed, maybe wrong prop.
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I have wondered what I would choose if I had to replace our Beta (for various reasons, it would almost certainly be another Beta). I think that the footprint of the 20, 25 and 30 may be the same (?), but very much doubt I’d go to the 30. I take Tranona’s point about common replacements, but I presume most people go over rather than under and there is also the question of what sizes of their preferred make were available when they replaced. I have certainly found the discussion of prices interesting.
 
Hi first post so go easy on me!
We bought a 1983 Sadler 32 lift keel 3 years ago. I believe there were about 20 to 30 lift keelers built. We sail in the north of Scotland so went for something sturdy and solid and are very happy with the Sadler. Our harbour entrance is also tidal so the lift keel gives a bit more scope for getting in and out. There is much talk of engine size etc ours has a Bukh DV20 with a 16x12 prop this combination (which is pretty standard) pushes us along at 6 kn at 2200 rpm. We tend to do 2000 rpm which gives 5 to 5.5 kn. At full throttle we do just over 7 kn but it feels like hard work! The main problem with using too much throttle is over 2200 rpm the back of the boat gets dragged lower into the water with not much more speed advantage - common on most boats with an angled prop shaft but I think made worse on the Sadler 32 due to the nipped in stern. We only really use the lift keel when going to windward the rest of the time I don't think it makes much difference but the boat does sail well in a strongish breeze - had a great beat up the Sound of Raasay in 25Kn wind with second reef and 3/4 genoa giving about 6 kn speed with not too much heel - the other more modern yacht had to give up and head into Portree - horses for courses I suppose.
Lang may yer lum reek!
 
Tranona said:
You seem stuck in the 1970s and can't accept that the world has moved on and people have different expectations about an engine in a sailing boat.
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Not everybody has the same expectations. "People" is a plural, and it may be that the expectation that everything should have a geet big engine is less amongst people who are thinking of buying older boats.

Tranona said:
Read the whole post and you will see the reason why later boats had the smaller engine. it was not choice.
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I note the claim, but I also note that the designer wasn't worried enough about the lower power engine to reconfigure the engine compartment to allow a larger one.
 
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sadler 29 owner - new beta 25 6 yrs ago - very happy with power and fuel consumption etc etc - equally friend previously had albin ballad with the beta 20 and he was more than happy too etc etc - i'm not sure that general useage in a variety of conditions makes much difference at all - the push through a choppy stretch / against tide seems one of the slight advantages - only my experience though-
 
Tranona said:
.........................out of step with reality even when confronted with solid factual evidence.
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Am I? Reading the whole thread is sound advice indeed.

You told us a 25hp engine would be over 5 thousand pounds - You are so well informed how did you get that wrong?

You told us a 14 hp engine was in the region of £3,600 - Wrong

You called a 20 hp engine small and cheap - Wrong - the designer was happy with 18hp.

You say engine weight has no effect on performance - Wrong

Is fitting the biggest engine you can really a good idea - Why is that then, if the power in not usable? A quiz:
Who wrote this:
"It is pointless overpowering the boat as you will not be able to use the extra power. Maximum speed is limited by the waterline length."
Answers on a postcard.

You seem keen giving factually bad advice and seeking to justify it with fanciful anecdotes and bluster. You are doing this more and more. Most of us get it wrong and then apologise with a smile, if you did that you would be better liked and listened to more.
People would not be so happy to see you fall flat on your arris'.
 
doug748 said:
... You called a 20 hp engine small and cheap - Wrong - the designer was happy with 18hp. ...
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I'll just point out to avoid a potential cause of unnecessary disagreement :) that our 32 being fitted from new with a ca. 18HP Beta is not AFAIK evidence of Sadler's choice, as the boat was not built by them. I think 20 is the lowest in Sadler-made boats, but stand to be corrected
 
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