Sadler 32-a good buy?

[eddystone]

I would advise patience - there is always a trickle of 32s coming up for sale; be prepared to look at a fair few and personally I would buy on condition rather than inventory. I don't know how good the engineering of the lift keel version is bearing in mind they couldn't have built many - the vast majority are deep or shallow fin. I would go for a later boat simply on the grounds that they will have the VP2002 which is simple and easy to access all the main maintenance items, if a bit noisy; get a compression test before buying - if compression is good and equal(ish) between the cylinders they could go on for ever. I've only seen one with a Watermota and it looked a tight squeeze; As others have said, 18/20HP is adequate but not less. I doubt that there is any benefit from more than 25HP.

 

[Boo2]

You buy a new engine for c£3,600 delivered with gearbox, full electrics and engine coupling. You fit it. £50 for bits = £3,650

Or you can also have new:

Prop Shaft £100
Stuffing box £100
Prop £200
Fuel filter £100
Water filter £100
Fuel tank £150
Waterlock £100
Exhaust £100

Plus have the engines lifted in and out to save you the trouble plus 4 nights bed and breakfast and you still have not managed to spend £5000.

That's the most optimistic set of numbers I've seen, and I would expect to be paying 2 or 3 times that. Eg £50 for bits ? No chance...

Boo2

 

[doug748]

That's the most optimistic set of numbers I've seen, and I would expect to be paying 2 or 3 times that. Eg £50 for bits ? No chance...

Boo2

Most of the florid reports you see are based on trying to make an old boat into a new one, a mistake many of us make.

Assuming the new engine will fit into the old regime without problems you have little to spend apart from sourcing some mild steel for the bearers, odd fastenings and perhaps some exhaust and water hose.

The expenses start to mount as you are decide, or are forced, to uprate ancillaries. As pointed out in the rough and ready list.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Most of the florid reports you see are based on trying to make an old boat into a new one, a mistake many of us make.

There is also often an assumption that the only possible replacement for an old engine is a brand new one. Second-hand is also an option.

 

[Tranona]

There is also often an assumption that the only possible replacement for an old engine is a brand new one. Second-hand is also an option.

You can indeed buy secondhand engines - but there is not any direct replacement for the massive Ford engine that is in the subject boat, so you are effectively starting from scratch. Very few modern, suitable engines come onto the market for obvious reasons. Few people take them out if they are in good order. Volvo 2030 and the similar Yanmar 28hp do come up second hand, but typically asking prices of over £3k. So even using one of these you would struggle to keep under the £5k.

Don't follow the "logic" that claims it is not necessary to get the installation up to new standard. Once you decide to get a new engine makes sense to install it properly using new parts, taking the opportunity to do things like upgrade insulation, electrics etc and anything that wears. Why re-use 30+ year old parts when the new engine could easily last another 30 years?

 

[JumbleDuck]

You can indeed buy secondhand engines - but there is not any direct replacement for the massive Ford engine that is in the subject boat, so you are effectively starting from scratch. Very few modern, suitable engines come onto the market for obvious reasons.

There seems to a be a reasonable supply of, for example, ex (ship's) lifeboat engines, and a smaller supply of smaller, lighter things as people increase power. Worth exploring possibilities before deciding.

Don't follow the "logic" that claims it is not necessary to get the installation up to new standard. Once you decide to get a new engine makes sense to install it properly using new parts, taking the opportunity to do things like upgrade insulation, electrics etc and anything that wears. Why re-use 30+ year old parts when the new engine could easily last another 30 years?

A qualified "yes" there. It's certainly worth think about what could usefully be upgraded, but it's also worth thinking about what need not. For example, when I get around to re-engining I may well stick with my existing stuffing gland, albeit with new hose and packing material.

 

[Hydrozoan]

… As others have said, 18/20HP is adequate but not less. I doubt that there is any benefit from more than 25HP.

Yes, our 1994 deep fin Sadler 32 has a Beta of ca. 18HP, fitted from new. As you say, a couple of HP more might be good but it’s quite adequate IMO.

The OP might find it useful to take a look at the Sadler and Starlight Technical Discussion forum here http://mly.gamalanhost.net/ – it’s one of the good things about Sadler ownership, providing a wealth of information and support – to see both the kinds of issues that come up with these boats and what owners have done to maintain and improve them.

 

[Tranona]

There seems to a be a reasonable supply of, for example, ex (ship's) lifeboat engines, and a smaller supply of smaller, lighter things as people increase power. Worth exploring possibilities before deciding.

You will find those ex lifeboat engines need a lot of work to adapt to yachts, and are mostly based on very old designs. Yes, some people remove good engines to upgrade in power, but the sizes suitable for this boat are the sizes that are popular to upgrade to, rather than from. Hence the high asking prices for the few that do come on the market, eg Volvo 2030 I was looking at recently at £3300. This is an engine that is at least 10 years old!

 

[Boo2]

Most of the florid reports you see are based on trying to make an old boat into a new one, a mistake many of us make.

Assuming the new engine will fit into the old regime without problems you have little to spend apart from sourcing some mild steel for the bearers, odd fastenings and perhaps some exhaust and water hose.

The expenses start to mount as you are decide, or are forced, to uprate ancillaries. As pointed out in the rough and ready list.

You could spend £50 on hose clips let alone hoses...

I did recently replace an engine and can say your costs are a substantial underestimate.

Boo2

 

[Tranona]

Just to add a few facts on engines in Sadler 32s. There are currently 13 for sale on Yachtworld. 8 have their original engines, 3 of which are the early Seapanther 30hp, 2, Buhk 20, and 3 Volvo 2002. 5 re-engined, Yanmar 29hp, 3 and Nanni 29hp 2.

Similar story with boats listed on Apolloduck. Bukh, 4, Volvo 1, Seapanther 2. re engines Yanmar 1, Nanni 1, Beta 20 1.

So. Original engine 30hp (later 20hp). Re engines usual choice 30hp.

 

[pvb]

You could spend £50 on hose clips let alone hoses...

I did recently replace an engine and can say your costs are a substantial underestimate.

Agreed! I'm still waiting for doug748 to tell us which Beta dealer offers 40% discounts...

 

[JollyRodgers]

I have a 1986 Sadler 32 Fin Keel (London boat show model) that had 1 owner from new until I bought it.

Engine was replaced with a new Beta Marine 28hp back in 2009. Almost everything on it that could potentially go wrong has been replaced within the last 12-18 months. New Rocna Anchor + chain, waterpump, sea toilet, woodwork all redone inside and out, the boat itself is in very,very good condition, newish sails in great condition, new Nasa wind instrument and display, new Nasa speed log instruments, new radio (fixed and handheld), Ocean Safety Jonbuoy Danbuoy & Horseshoe System, new flares, About to have 60W solar panel, MPTT control and 3 new batteries installed. Engine serviced every year and winterised. Also has 2 tenders, One Avon Redstart with a Seagull 2.5hp outboard and another fibreglass one that is around 11ft long.

Areas for improvments: Coppercoating instead of antifouling, Nice Chartplotter, Self tailing winches, new upholstery (got someone who will do that cheap for me) and fixing the Eber D1L heater - which I am working on.

I could go on but will stop before I bore you all to death.

Anyway, It's a fantastic boat and judging by the others on the market I would say it's in one of the best condition. Great fun to sail and for 4 people or so, it's a really good size.

Open to sensible offers if you're interested. I honestly just don't get the time to go down and use it as much as I would like to. PM me if you want pics, more info or have any specific questions about sadlers in general.

 

[Spyro]

I have a 1986 Sadler 32 Fin Keel (London boat show model) that had 1 owner from new until I bought it.

Engine was replaced with a new Beta Marine 28hp back in 2009. Almost everything on it that could potentially go wrong has been replaced within the last 12-18 months. New Rocna Anchor + chain, waterpump, sea toilet, woodwork all redone inside and out, the boat itself is in very,very good condition, newish sails in great condition, new Nasa wind instrument and display, new Nasa speed log instruments, new radio (fixed and handheld), Ocean Safety Jonbuoy Danbuoy & Horseshoe System, new flares, About to have 60W solar panel, MPTT control and 3 new batteries installed. Engine serviced every year and winterised. Also has 2 tenders, One Avon Redstart with a Seagull 2.5hp outboard and another fibreglass one that is around 11ft long.

Areas for improvments: Coppercoating instead of antifouling, Nice Chartplotter, Self tailing winches, new upholstery (got someone who will do that cheap for me) and fixing the Eber D1L heater - which I am working on.

I could go on but will stop before I bore you all to death.

Anyway, It's a fantastic boat and judging by the others on the market I would say it's in one of the best condition. Great fun to sail and for 4 people or so, it's a really good size.

Open to sensible offers if you're interested. I honestly just don't get the time to go down and use it as much as I would like to. PM me if you want pics, more info or have any specific questions about sadlers in general.

I don't think the OP was particularly looking for a Sadler 32. I think he thought the one at his club was a good buy. He's probably having other thoughts on that now.

 

[JollyRodgers]

I don't think the OP was particularly looking for a Sadler 32. I think he thought the one at his club was a good buy. He's probably having other thoughts on that now.

Ah, I only quickly skimmed through thread - my fault.

 

[steve123]

Yes, you can get a small engine for that, but the Sadler 32 really needs 20hp or so, which will cost nearer to £5000.

As a 1982 Sadler 32 owner with the original Bukh 20 engine I've been looking at the options for if/when the engine needs to be replaced. At this year's London Boat Show I was quoted £3,670 (inc. VAT) for a Beta 20. An ex-lifeboat Bukh 24, converted back to sea water cooling can be had for £2,750.

Regarding condensation, the only significant amount I've ever seen is on the metal window frames, which I assume also occurs on the foam filled Sadlers (26/29/34).

 

[pvb]

At this year's London Boat Show I was quoted £3,670 (inc. VAT) for a Beta 20.

That's interesting, bearing in mind that Beta's Sep 2015 price list gives a price of almost £6000 for a Beta 20! Was your offer from Beta, or from a Beta dealer? I can't see why anyone would list such extortionate prices compared with what they're prepared to accept.

 

[doug748]

Agreed! I'm still waiting for doug748 to tell us which Beta dealer offers 40% discounts...

I will tell you what I know.

There are price lists and price lists. I have been told on this forum that 30% is common. I have been told a lot on this forum though and would place no reliance on this piece of intelligence.

When there was discussion of Chinese engines it was apparent that you could buy a 21 hp unit for something over £2000. What-ho, you think, a bargain but not so much when VAT and a gearbox is added, because that is nearer to £3,500. This did not seem so very extraordinary to me.

So I rang Beta and explained the issue and said could he match those figures?And he said no, but he gave me a quote and it was pretty close. Now I can't recall the figures but it was within a hundred or so pounds, maybe two hundred, maybe three I don't know. It does not matter. I know with prudence, and moderate luck, you can fit a motor for a lot less than: Engine + £1000. So my advice to the OP is that a new engine can be fitted for under £5000 - only provided you are willing to do all the work yourself. As Jumbleduck has pointed out it will be a lot less if you can find a good used engine and a bit less if you are willing to use a Chinese import.

I posted on the Chinese engine thread saying I thought no one should think of buying and unknown engine Just to save a few hundred quid - not a flicker of interest.

Now I have remembered that conversation and report it here for the delight of all. If you don't believe it, then either the man at Beta was lying or I am, you can take your choice.

I think figures of £7/10,000 for a new engine on an old boat are misleading and are often put up as some sort of debating wheeze. You can spend that, people will always take your money but it does not reflect what people I know actually do.

That's all I know.

But I do hope the OP comes back and tells us how his thoughts are developing on his boat, it has gone a bit quiet. Maybe he is avoiding the crossfire.

 

[steve123]

That's interesting, bearing in mind that Beta's Sep 2015 price list gives a price of almost £6000 for a Beta 20! Was your offer from Beta, or from a Beta dealer? I can't see why anyone would list such extortionate prices compared with what they're prepared to accept.

I spoke to the dealer but the price list that he gave me, which I have in front of me, is Beta's. It's an extra £130 for a 75A alternator. The Beta 25 is £4,100.

 

[pvb]

I spoke to the dealer but the price list that he gave me, which I have in front of me, is Beta's. It's an extra £130 for a 75A alternator. The Beta 25 is £4,100.

Intriguing! The Beta price list I have (September 2015 - Issue 1) says the Beta 20 is £4620 plus VAT, with a standard gearbox included, but extra £150 for a 75A alternator.

I wonder whether Beta have a number of different "official" price lists, so that dealers can show punters a high price then offer a huge "discount"? That would be rather under-hand though.

 

[Tranona]

I think figures of £7/10,000 for a new engine on an old boat are misleading and are often put up as some sort of debating wheeze. You can spend that, people will always take your money but it does not reflect what people I know actually do.

If you look at the examples I gave earlier of Sadler 32s that had been re-engined you find a very different picture from the one you paint. 7 out of the 8 chose not to fit the smallest, cheapest engine, but chose 29hp engines, 4 Yanmars and 3 Nannis, plus from the descriptions of the work used new installation components.

You can do this type of job at lower cost than the £7k+ suggested, but only by using a small engine (or a secondhand one if you can find one that is suitable) only replacing what is absolutely necessary and doing it all yourself. That I would suggest is not the approach that most people take, for all sorts of reasons.