Sadler 290

The Third Man said:
Well I am not qualified to get too deeply into boat building costs and I am not sure where the £100,000 figure came from. The basic cost of ours including VAT was £76,000. However, based on my experience of the build process, I do think that the 290 could have been built by Ramparts more efficiently and there were areas that the directors could have looked at. What I will not accept is that either of the two Rampart directors were "disreputable" as Fast Jedi suggests and this is where I came into this discusssion. In fact I think it is rather a dangerous statement to make in a public forum.
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Yes, but that was at least 4 years ago and boat building costs have risen faster than general inflation. However, the builders could not make a profit at that price. Not a criticism of the individuals concerned, but having been involved in small volume boat building I know how difficult it is to be "efficient". You only have to look at the videos of the Bavaria factory to see how "efficient" production can be. But that is only the part of the story. You still have to find customers and comply with all the legislation and so on which in any business eats up time and money.
 
When I placed my order in 2003, the all in price including what we're extras such as heating, fridge, extra battery, etc.etc. came to £65,000. The extras list was a bit of a moveable feast though.
I found the directors to be open and honest, and during my build it was discussed how lead and resin prices were going through the roof and that big price increases would be inevitable quickly.
Without wishing this thread to go down the route of how later prospective 290 owners suffered and the awful circumstances (fire at Hillyards etc.) that occurred, I don't think it was malice on any ones part at Rampart following their demise.

290s were continuously improved throughout the build program and I had some of the improvements incorporated into mine. Prices were indeed nudging £100k towards the end to get what was a good quality well designed boat built to order. However, if they are built again, as long as the hull is built as strongly as the originals and the large rig and heavy ballast retained, then efficiencies in the fit out could be made.

If someone does start to build them again, the new builders would do well to seek out existing owners and seek out what works and what could do with further tweaking which to be honest isn't much other than the choice of some fittings.

Going back to the OP, I also met the owner of the Lyme Regis 290 once at Brighton when he was on his way to the Fresian Islands and again in the 2008 race when despite being T boned by a Fisher 36 or similar, which wiped out his pushpit and stanchions carried on racing and still got a good time - great guy. :)
 
The Third Man said:
Well I am not qualified to get too deeply into boat building costs and I am not sure where the £100,000 figure came from. The basic cost of ours including VAT was £76,000. However, based on my experience of the build process, I do think that the 290 could have been built by Ramparts more efficiently and there were areas that the directors could have looked at. What I will not accept is that either of the two Rampart directors were "disreputable" as Fast Jedi suggests and this is where I came into this discusssion. In fact I think it is rather a dangerous statement to make in a public forum.
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Mr Third Man ... There were three directors, you would be shocked if you knew what really happened.
 
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Can't quite see from the photos posted whether it's a masthead rig with biggish genoa or fractional rig. Hypothetically, if I was looking to buy oone of these with fair amount of singlehanding in mind, if it is masthead rig, would need to know that the headsail winches are easy to reach from the helm.

If, say next year, I decided this was the boat for me, obviously in the lap of the gods whether a decent one might come up when only 40ish built. It was mentioned that modifications were made through the production run - is there anything an early boat, say 2005/6 would lack compared to a later boat?
 
NigelCraig said:
Can't quite see from the photos posted whether it's a masthead rig with biggish genoa or fractional rig. Hypothetically, if I was looking to buy oone of these with fair amount of singlehanding in mind, if it is masthead rig, would need to know that the headsail winches are easy to reach from the helm.

If, say next year, I decided this was the boat for me, obviously in the lap of the gods whether a decent one might come up when only 40ish built. It was mentioned that modifications were made through the production run - is there anything an early boat, say 2005/6 would lack compared to a later boat?
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Get a good A/h
She is fractional if that makes any difference
check-out my photo of Habebty
P5313142.jpg


This is my deck lay-out & i singlehand often, so you wont have a problem with a S290

080820097812.jpg
 
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Easy to singlehand, been single handing mine for 8 years - not in this instance though - nice pic taken from passing ship on Orwell (not by Sailorman though :D )

PICT0066.jpg
 
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NigelCraig said:
Can't quite see from the photos posted whether it's a masthead rig with biggish genoa or fractional rig. Hypothetically, if I was looking to buy oone of these with fair amount of singlehanding in mind, if it is masthead rig, would need to know that the headsail winches are easy to reach from the helm.

If, say next year, I decided this was the boat for me, obviously in the lap of the gods whether a decent one might come up when only 40ish built. It was mentioned that modifications were made through the production run - is there anything an early boat, say 2005/6 would lack compared to a later boat?
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Changes included supplier of rig, mine is Z Spars, later were Selden. Most other changes were cosmetic interior. Mine has vinyl headlining later boats had moulded liners.
Interior dimensions and locker layout was semi customised according to owners preferences but the same basic layout with a good galley with one or two sinks. Some had teak cockpit and some also had teak decks.
 
Georgio said:
From my point of view (I have a deep fin) and don’t want to give up the performance of that but there are plenty of places I would like to go but can not (at least not without beaching legs), however it seems that the 290 and RM yachts seem to offer very good performance so the best of both worlds.

I did look at the Hunter Legends but they don’t really do it for me aesthetically and don’t sail as well (although build quality appeared good and lots of kit)
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I looked at a 290 when deciding what to go for, but for me, the rather traditional (and dark) interior put me off, so went for the RM instead. As it turns out, by doing that, my life time savings remained 'preserved' I reckon, as i was not caught up in the subsequent debacle.
As others have pointed out, both variants (290s and RMs) offer the opportunity to go where no others can go, beach where you want (very important to me in this part of the world) and offer excellent performance. I am very happy with my choice, i just continue to wonder why RMs have not pernetrated the UK more, particularly the East Coast. As all are no doubt aware, they are present in ever increasing numbers in France. And RM must see a future in twin keels, all their boats are offered with this option now, even the 'ginormous' ones! (and tiller steering too, though perhaps not on the 1300, but that is a different story)
 
I think that you may well be referring to a post by me when you ask about modifications.

Habebty is quite right few were of any great significance. The point I was making was that the directors saw small "improvements" that could be made which whilst not of fundamental importance were generally seen as nice touches eg an opening transom window, a "posh" cutlery drawer, slightly different shelving, a better location for the gps receiver for the plotter. That should give you a feel for it. Best summed up as nice to have but not worth being concerned about if you buy a boat that lacks them.

With regards to the dark interior referred to, I think by Georgeo, I am left wondering if he only saw the boats with a teak finish. Ours is American Cherry and I certainly would not call it dark. I and others who have been onboard think that it is a warm colour. As far as I know both colours were standard options throughout production.
 
snooks said:
Are you sure about the moulds? I spoke to Andy Middleton, who built 3 sadler 32s recently (last one looks great, and is being internally finished off). I thought he said he had the moulds for the 290 and that was his next project.

If anyone wants a new bilge keeled Sadler 32 he's selling it.
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Update to an old post.
Andy Middleton intended to keep the last sadler 32, completed in 2012, himself, but then bought two Sadler 290 hulls and all the moulds (I think). So he put the 32 up for sale while enjoying it occasionally. It is now sold. I bought it. It is probably the best built 32 of them all. I would say that!
One of the two 290's is nearing completion (He is not throwing them together for quick buck, just fitting their build into his busy work load). Once sold, I think he hopes to complete the second one for himself.
If you want a brand new 290 for about £70k, his will be as well or better built than any.
 
Sorry, I should have explained. An ex Sadler employee who did his apprenticeship in Wroxham, Norfolk. Based in Poole for many years now, he bought the moulds etc for the 25, 32 then, more recently (about 3 years or so back I think), the 290 together with two unused 290 moulded hulls. From these various moulds, he has built a number of new 25's, three 32's and is now building a new 290 using one of the two hulls and will no doubt build the second once the first is completed and sold. He works mostly as a self employed shipwright on all makes of cruisers in the Poole area, doing all types of big and small repairs and modifications. He is highly regarded by those who he does work for and is mentioned on the Mike Lucas Yachts website due to the new builds.
 
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Hi,

I am the bloke that took my Sadler 290 on a long voyage and wrote that blog.

I have just sold her, but would be happy to discuss 290s with anyone anytime. Great boats.

John Willis
 
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