Sadler 26 re-engine from Bukh 10hp to Beta ??

[gazpode_l]

Hi All
I am just about to start the process of re-powering our 1983 sadler 26, from the original BUKH 10HP single cylinder engine, (which has clearly come to end of useful life and requires a major restoration) to a beta-marine model - either 16hp or 20hp

Depending on where I read some people have managed to squeeze in a 20hp into the space, others going for 16hp...

What i'd like to ask is the propulsion side of things - what have people got experience in operating and what sort of speed are you getting from the engine when you've done this swap?

I noticed at the start of this season and last we were getting 2knots chugging into approx. 1knot of tollesbury, Essex, UK current with moderate power which only increased to around 2.7knots when increasing throttle to max

I am really hopeful that I can expect at least double or treble this when the new lump is fitted

What size we get remains to be seen.. (They are removing the old tired-out one in three weeks...Took the decision to pull her out today after finding next-to-no power at all - engineer says piston rings are shot..)

 

[Kelpie]

You may find that there isn't enough space for a prop big enough to actually use 20hp.
My old boat, a 27ft Vega, was very happy with a Beta 14 and could cruise at 5.5kt under engine. I'd expect similar performance in your Sadler as they have the same displacement.

 

[Habebty]

Whilst the Bukh is possibly rebuildable? A Beta 16 would be much lighter and would provide ample power, particularly if you select a suitable prop. What about a Nanni? Same engine but possibly better marinisation. Good support from Beta though.

 

[gazpode_l]

Whilst the Bukh is possibly rebuildable? A Beta 16 would be much lighter and would provide ample power, particularly if you select a suitable prop. What about a Nanni? Same engine but possibly better marinisation. Good support from Beta though.

We'd already decided on removing the bukh at the end of the year anyway, (prior to todays problems) Our engineer is a beta dealer/rep and he has a fair number of them around our marina yard. They are apparently very easy to maintain and most essential things are easy to get at from the cabin with the step/platform removed. Yes the prop thing is going to be key. We've already bought a new prop for the bukh but I think the shaft size differs. I believe that beta will speak to our engineer when he places the order as I've already spoken to them once before regarding our update.

 

[zoidberg]

I removed a 'questionable' old Kubota tractor engine and bits, replacing that lump with a Beta 14 ( essentially same physical size as a Beta 10, I'm told ) which went into the space easily. I did require Beta's 'Special Engine Feet' as the boat's moulded-in bearers needed these 'Specials'. These were a perfect fit, other than the fuel lift pump lever now proving inaccessible.

( I have the Beta-supplied 'originals', unused, should someone have a use for them )

Beta's CEO exhorted me to have a High Rise Exhaust, and I'm sure your engineer will agree. The diagrams in Beta's installation handbook ( online ) show clearly the requirement, for any similar engine.

 

[Seajet]

While I agree wholeheartedly with the engine change ( easy for me to say not having the serious hassle ) especially as I think the new job will be fresh water cooled - if the original engine was only giving two or three knots surely there was something radically wrong besides being a bit knackered ?

 

[LittleSister]

if the original engine was only giving two or three knots surely there was something radically wrong besides being a bit knackered ?

+1

 

[Tranona]

A 14 with the standard 12*9 prop will give you hull speed of 6.5 knots. A 16 will make little difference except you may be able to cruise a couple of hundred rpm lower for the same speed.

Remember the new engine will give you a 40% boost in power and the original engine in good nick was perfectly adequate.

You will definitely need a new prop but you should be able to use the same shaft if it is in good condition.

 

[JumbleDuck]

What about a Nanni? Same engine but possibly better marinisation.

I fitted a Nanni N2.14 last year. I considered Beta but was deterred by what seems like a cheap-and-cheerful approach - as far as I know, no maker fits Beta from new.

I may have been wrong. The Nanni runs fine, but has so far blown two fuses in service (the first meant it wouldn't stop, the second that it wouldn't run) and sprang a leak from its header tank which required replacement. It has now developed a starting problem which I am having investigated.

Overall I wish I had just fitted a new 1GM10 to replace my old one. I have even less faith in the Nanni at 120 hours than I had in the Yanmar at 1,200 hours.

You will definitely need a new prop but you should be able to use the same shaft if it is in good condition.

One positive thing about the Nanni is that the 1GM10 prop seems to work pretty well - the Nanni has a lower reduction ratio in the gearbox so the faster spinning prop seems to absorb the extra power. I need to do some rengine speed vs.boat speed tests on a calm day, but I am not expecting to have to do more than possible have the blades slightly repitched.

 

[Tranona]

I fitted a Nanni N2.14 last year. I considered Beta but was deterred by what seems like a cheap-and-cheerful approach - as far as I know, no maker fits Beta from new.

I may have been wrong. The Nanni runs fine, but has so far blown two fuses in service (the first meant it wouldn't stop, the second that it wouldn't run) and sprang a leak from its header tank which required replacement. It has now developed a starting problem which I am having investigated.

Overall I wish I had just fitted a new 1GM10 to replace my old one. I have even less faith in the Nanni at 120 hours than I had in the Yanmar at 1,200 hours.



One positive thing about the Nanni is that the 1GM10 prop seems to work pretty well - the Nanni has a lower reduction ratio in the gearbox so the faster spinning prop seems to absorb the extra power. I need to do some rengine speed vs.boat speed tests on a calm day, but I am not expecting to have to do more than possible have the blades slightly repitched.

Creme de la creme - Rustler have fitted Betas and Nannis as have many other small builders including in the Sadler 290. True no major production builder uses them, but several of the Polish builders have.

Presumably your 1GM had a 2.6:1 reduction. mine had a 3.1 so i was able to swing a fine pitch 15" which also works with my Nanni using a 2.65 reduction.

However the OPs Bukh is probably the wrong hand as well as the wrong size.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I repowered from a Westerbeke 20 to a Beta 20 in my last boat, a Catalina 270 (27’).

Upon the advice of the co. fitting it I went with the 20 rather than the 16, but after having to have spacers fitted to the engine box I wished I’d gone for the 16. Same reliability, smoothness, reliability and hot water. The boat never needed full throttle with the 20, not even on a bumpy day.

In your position I’d go with the Beta 16, but would also recommend a Flexofold propeller: a revelation and better boatspeed under sail too.

Interestingly I’ve previously repowered another boat that had a 1GM10 with a new one of the same: easy to swap, easy to start & stop. Well worth the cash for the confidence.

 

[john_morris_uk]

We'd already decided on removing the bukh at the end of the year anyway, (prior to todays problems) Our engineer is a beta dealer/rep and he has a fair number of them around our marina yard. They are apparently very easy to maintain and most essential things are easy to get at from the cabin with the step/platform removed. Yes the prop thing is going to be key. We've already bought a new prop for the bukh but I think the shaft size differs. I believe that beta will speak to our engineer when he places the order as I've already spoken to them once before regarding our update.

The dealers spinning the story slightly as Beta and Nanni are both based on exactly the same Kubota engine. The only difference is the marinisation parts used and the looms and panels etc. (And the colour they’re sprayed afterwards).

Beta have a good reputation for support but I’ve never had a problem with AR Peachment who supply Nanni. (Sample of one!)

 

[JumbleDuck]

Presumably your 1GM had a 2.6:1 reduction. mine had a 3.1 so i was able to swing a fine pitch 15" which also works with my Nanni using a 2.65 reduction.

Yup. I stuck with the standard 2:1 Nanni gearbox for that reason. I'm hoping the Nanni will settle down, but it's been just one damn thing after another since I got it, which is wearing.

However the OPs Bukh is probably the wrong hand as well as the wrong size.

That would certainly add flies to the ointment.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Beta have a good reputation for support but I’ve never had a problem with AR Peachment who supply Nanni. (Sample of one!)

Peachment's technical support has been excellent to me (just a shame I needed it) and the yard which fitted the engine say that Peachment's are by far the easiest and most helpful suppliers to deal with.

 

[Cockaigne]

Hi All
I noticed at the start of this season and last we were getting 2knots chugging into approx. 1knot of tollesbury, Essex, UK current with moderate power which only increased to around 2.7knots when increasing throttle to max

If you could only manage that speed and, as your engineer has claimed, the piston rings are shot you must have been going around in a cloud of dense smoke; pausing at frequent intervals to pour more oil into the sump

 

[morgandlm]

I also have a Sadler 26 with a Bukh DV10. I fitted a Brunton Autoprop two years ago with great results when motoring and when under sail. The Bukh is the original from 1987 and has proved very reliable but is getting tired. I discussed with Beta Marine at LBS last year and concluded that a Beta 14 was the way forward with a gearbox ratio to accommodate the Autoprop which would mean a slight re-tune of the Beta. As others have noted the poor performance of your old configuration indicates something more than just an old engine. The Beta guys at LBS were very clued up and helpful.
David Morgan

 

[stuarta]

I co-owned a Sadler 26 with a recently installed Beta 16 a few years ago. On a fixed 2 blade prop she’d cruise at 6kts with a clean bottom but more like 5.5kts most of the time (a better prop would have helped). I can’t recall what revs she needed for that but it was comfortable with a few left in the bank if needed. It was very economical, used no oil and starter first time, every time. I’d heartily recommend the 16.

 

[Praxinoscope]

My Sadler 25 is powered by a Beta 14 and easily achieves theoretical hull speed with a 12” x 8 prop. no problem with space to fit it in, I don’t see why a 26 should be much different.
I re-engined my previous boat an Invicta 26 and this was happy with a Beta 10. and 13” x 8 prop This also easily reached theoretical hull speed.
Go for the Beta, never had a spot of bother with them and their after sales service is excellent.

 

[Glenlivet]

Years ago I repowered my Atlanta 25 with a 10hp Nanni. More than enough oomph to push the boat at hull speed +, the only problem was that the Nanni ate its drive belts. A common problem at the time I discovered as the pulleys slipped out of perfect alignment.

 

[Varne27]

Bought my Sadler 26 last winter ———- was re-engined 4/5years ago with 10hp Beta.
Does approx. 4.5knots at 2000 revs in a slight chop. 2 blade 12” prop. Only time I increased revs above 2000 was last week when I stuck her in the mud ! She is easily driven and as you’ve got a fine Sailboat you probably won’t be motoring very much anyway.
If I was replacing I’d go for 14hp at same physical size as the 10. Actually, they are all the same width (430mm) up to 25hp.
They just get a bit longer, and of course a bit more expensive as you go up. I fitted a Beta 14 to my last boat (Varne 27) and it never missed a beat.
I can’t help thinking anything above 14hp is overkill — more money, more weight.