Sad case of deaths at sea.....not keeping watch
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rotrax
Well-known member
Were you dislaying the fishing day shape?
He might of had no right.
As I said in my previous post, you would be in the water or dead however right you were.
Pragmatism won, did it not?
He might of had no right.
As I said in my previous post, you would be in the water or dead however right you were.
Pragmatism won, did it not?
Achosenman
Active member
All I did was ask for context. You seem very defensive, but yes you are correct. Without context, it can't be answered.
TernVI
Well-known member
Which way is your boat pointing?
You're looking at his port side there.....
MystyBlue2
Active member
This is my point of "Bully's" of the sea.
They think they own the water because they get paid to pilot that vessel and us pleasure boaters MUST give way regardless of situation. Or because they are simply larger.
Happens all too often in my eyes and too many lives lost and boats sunken because of swamping due to chest puffing and arm flexing!
Dangerous and pathetic.
MystyBlue2
Active member
There i was (After I'd already scarpered to safety)! Which can be clearly seen in my pic.
Originally i was bang on dead infront of him, had no time to take pics and vids of whole scenario as i wouldn't be here to tell the tale. The pic is from when i was PUSHED to a safe distance away from a collision or swamping scenario.
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john0740
Member
Is there any mention of the use of a 'night vision' mode on whatever gadget may have been used for the 'social media' interaction?
Without using a night vision setting, is it even possible to use such a gadget and to maintain adequate lookout?
rotrax
Well-known member
I dont think you were displaying the Fishing Day Shape, otherwise you would have said you were.
If fishing at Anchor, an Anchor Ball, if on the drift, the day shape. From 50 years of sea angling experience.
If, as you say, you had no time to video it, you saw him very late. I accept, they do travel fast. They can be noisy too!
And, as I suggested in a previous post, you appear to have chosen to fish on a recognised Ferry Route.
He may well have bullied you, but it could be argued you did not make all the right choices.
It may be an unpaletable truth, but on the sea, in my experience, the bigger faster vessel is worth keeping clear of.
On one of the few times were were sailing with our 12 metre Motorsailer last year - August IIRC - it was a lovely calm day, no swell in the Solent, bar wash.
Approaching Portsmouth Harbour there must have been forty small angling vessels anchored fishing around Stokes Bay and stretching to the centre of the channel.
Many were similar to your boat, and were taking advantage of the smooth conditions. Plus, there were about twenty fishing Kayaks.
As an interested party, I counted day shapes/anchor balls.
There were seven. I thought that was pretty good.
We were roundly abused by several despite gently weaving our way through.
Sometimes Anglers in small boats believe they own the water, when, in fact, it is shared.
MystyBlue2
Active member
But surely if he cant see a bright white 14ft boat, Hes definitely not going to be able to see an anchor ball?I dont think you were displaying the Fishing Day Shape, otherwise you would have said you were.
If fishing at Anchor, an Anchor Ball, if on the drift, the day shape. From 50 years of sea angling experience.
If, as you say, you had no time to video it, you saw him very late. I accept, they do travel fast. They can be noisy too!
And, as I suggested in a previous post, you appear to have chosen to fish on a recognised Ferry Route.
He may well have bullied you, but it could be argued you did not make all the right choices.
It may be an unpaletable truth, but on the sea, in my experience, the bigger faster vessel is worth keeping clear of.
On one of the few times were were sailing with our 12 metre Motorsailer last year - August IIRC - it was a lovely calm day, no swell in the Solent, bar wash.
Approaching Portsmouth Harbour there must have been forty small angling vessels anchored fishing around Stokes Bay and stretching to the centre of the channel.
Many were similar to your boat, and were taking advantage of the smooth conditions. Plus, there were about twenty fishing Kayaks.
As an interested party, I counted day shapes/anchor balls.
There were seven. I thought that was pretty good.
We were roundly abused by several despite gently weaving our way through.
Sometimes Anglers in small boats believe they own the water, when, in fact, it is shared.
The ship in my pic set sail from the south east and proceeded to shetlands. I was 2NM from shore and i was in his route? The wreck and grounds i was fishing in that day was well clear of any shipping lanes!
Really he had 400+ miles to the east of me to plot his route safely and away from any obstruction and costal traffic but instead insisted on ploughing through close to shore and putting the shits up every single water user within 3NM of the coast.
That day there where jetskis, paddleboarders, kayakers, inflatables and swimmers!
I suspect he was in autopilot and couldn't be bothered to take charge of the vessel.
Arrogance and dangerous. He should have been if full control of that vessel AT ALL TIMES and keeping a good proper constant lookout especially that close to shore! Not sitting on auto and expecting every other water user to look out for him as this is exactly how accidents and fatalities happen.
Definition of a professional :
"Someone that gets paid for the task or job, Doesn't necessarily mean they are good at it!"
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rotrax
Well-known member
You make a lot of assumptions in that post.
MystyBlue2
Active member
The only thing i assumed was he was in auto and by the swamping of another vessel further down the coast and then pics surfacing later on that day of him close to shore at craster 35NM north of where i was, Then i do assume that he was on auto and continued his route to shetlands throughout the night and arrived the following day.
Either way, He did so many things wrong just like the skipper in question of this thread topic.
And sadly because of this behaviour there is yet more fatalities at sea.
rotrax
Well-known member
I have a most excellent Raymarine Autopilot.
Even when it is engaged, I - or First Mate - are in charge of the vessel and can make course changes, significant ones, without disengaging the autopilot.
You have given more information now, might have been useful earlier.
Even a substantial fastcat ferry like the one you showed is allowed to navigate whatever distance offshore he likes.
Interesting that I have never come across actions by other boaters like the ones you describe.
In over 50 years of regular small boat angling.
Even when it is engaged, I - or First Mate - are in charge of the vessel and can make course changes, significant ones, without disengaging the autopilot.
You have given more information now, might have been useful earlier.
Even a substantial fastcat ferry like the one you showed is allowed to navigate whatever distance offshore he likes.
Interesting that I have never come across actions by other boaters like the ones you describe.
In over 50 years of regular small boat angling.
MystyBlue2
Active member
I know they are allowed to navigate anywhere but i do think IMHO, Captains of large vessels like that should use their brains instead of brawn and assess the situation at all times, After all he is the "professional" here right? And be cautious and respectful of other vessels and keep a look out to keep himself out of prison and prevent collisions and swamping others, Just like mobo's have to when it comes to kayakers. Its not hard to do and costs nowt but manners and keeps everyone safe!
TernVI
Well-known member
Perhaps you shouldn't be out there in a boat that will be swamped by a bit of wash?
Adios
...
Same type of ferry swamped this decent boat by going too fast in a place it was know could cause danger. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c7177e5274a4290000137/purdy.pdf Page 10/11 quite interesting. Seems like at planing or slow speed its no problem but medium speed it creates a large wash and no doubt especially when it falls off the plane. If I'm understanding it correctly they were dropping off the plane outside of the appropriately named shipwash bank so those biggest waves would break on those banks and not erode Felixstowe beach. But it was operating on the assumption that because no one was complaining about those outer banks it was ok. Until the Purdy was anchored there that day.
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MystyBlue2
Active member
So by that you mean...
No kayakers,
Bodyboarders,
Swimmers,
Surfers,
Jetskis as they can be easily tipped,
Any vessel under 18ft and a 6ft freeboard,
And leave the whole ocean to trawlers, Cargo ships And yachtsmen?
Dont work like that im afraid eventhough thats what they want, They dont own the ocean and have to be polite and respectful. I dont understand why some people find that so hard to do.
scottie
Well-known member
We have many debates on col regs and also carrying flares pryrotechnics or laser
You can criticise the get out the he’s bigger advocates as not being correct but they walk away
I would also suggest that that a flare through the wheelhouse window might have drawn some attention
This is the reality that a small boat will always loose against much bigger one
Dan208 remember that all parties have an obligation to avoid collisions and there are overriding no rights of way
Your executors will not thank you
You can criticise the get out the he’s bigger advocates as not being correct but they walk away
I would also suggest that that a flare through the wheelhouse window might have drawn some attention
This is the reality that a small boat will always loose against much bigger one
Dan208 remember that all parties have an obligation to avoid collisions and there are overriding no rights of way
Your executors will not thank you
MystyBlue2
Active member
Thats why i moved out of the way, so me being a non professional pleasure boat skipper had to use my brains and initiative to prevent an accident.
Seems like the higher you climb the ranks the more of your manners and brains you leave on ground level.
Resolution
Well-known member
This is most entertaining! Do keep it going.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
AS far as its right or wrong, cannot see at Night how flying any Solid Sign is gona help a Skipper who simply is not concentrating and cannot see a Lantern
If tgem Solid Signs were illuminated for instance, it might have assist them in this case; erspecially if they were not showing an 'All Around White Light' relying on a stern light is just crazy, they are often hidden by an Outboard or two, maybe an Ensign as well, plus plus and plus, they are certainly far to low to be of any use whatever
If tgem Solid Signs were illuminated for instance, it might have assist them in this case; erspecially if they were not showing an 'All Around White Light' relying on a stern light is just crazy, they are often hidden by an Outboard or two, maybe an Ensign as well, plus plus and plus, they are certainly far to low to be of any use whatever
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