Sabre 320l advice

[Marlene]

Hi
I am thinking about buying a boat which has twin 320l sabre engines, they have done about 3000 hours each, does anybody have any idea on the availability of parts as these are getting to be quite an old design of engine now, also will the parts be as expensive as Penta prices.
Thanks

 

[omega2]

From previous threads on here the 320's are a rare breed and from what I gather parts are not that easy to find. Latestarter will put you in the picture better than I can. Having said that these old Ford units do tend to go on and on, ours are well over 30 years old with an unknown number of hours on them (second hand when we got them) up to 5995 cc and 180horse power apart from the smoke on start up they are fine, yours however iirc are 6995cc and not as common.

 

[Latestarter1]

Hi
I am thinking about buying a boat which has twin 320l sabre engines, they have done about 3000 hours each, does anybody have any idea on the availability of parts as these are getting to be quite an old design of engine now, also will the parts be as expensive as Penta prices.
Thanks

Good engine in its time however parts availability is now a major issue.

14.7:1 piston in 320 which was a Sabre special unlike the 15.45:1 piston in the 225 which simply a Ford piston. Last posting on here about two years ago was a cry for help seeking a new piston, eventually two were located in Sweden.

Charge air cooler components NLA as well as many other components.

However nice the boat it sadly has to be considered a re-power project.

 

[NigelChattin]

We bought a Broom 44 fitted with 430 Sabres just over two years ago. At the time we had similar concerns about the engines, particularly having had Volvos (61a) for the previous 7 years and been very happy

We actually considered changing the engines when we bought the boat but were persuaded to give them a try for the first season, and I'm very glad we did - we've now covered over 2500 miles and the engines have been great; completely reliable, powerful, smooth.

In cold weather they can smoke until they warm up, though not any worse than the Volvos used to and it's not an issue in the summer. Parts haven't been problem yet either, quite a lot of spares came with the boat and we've accumulated more as and when we've found them - the cost is low enough for us to buy parts just in case we need them in the future.

Given our experience over the last two years I certainly wouldn't consider going to the expense of replacing the engines unless we had a serious mechanical failure, and even then I would be hopeful to repair the Sabres.

 

[volvopaul]

We bought a Broom 44 fitted with 430 Sabres just over two years ago. At the time we had similar concerns about the engines, particularly having had Volvos (61a) for the previous 7 years and been very happy

We actually considered changing the engines when we bought the boat but were persuaded to give them a try for the first season, and I'm very glad we did - we've now covered over 2500 miles and the engines have been great; completely reliable, powerful, smooth.

In cold weather they can smoke until they warm up, though not any worse than the Volvos used to and it's not an issue in the summer. Parts haven't been problem yet either, quite a lot of spares came with the boat and we've accumulated more as and when we've found them - the cost is low enough for us to buy parts just in case we need them in the future.

Given our experience over the last two years I certainly wouldn't consider going to the expense of replacing the engines unless we had a serious mechanical failure, and even then I would be hopeful to repair the Sabres.

Have you got the one that used to named moonraker? If so I have worked on it in past years .

 

[Latestarter1]

Giving OP advice on purchasing boat with Sabre 320L's by comparing with personal experience of Sabre 430L is apples, oranges and few grapes thrown in.

Sabre 430L was based on old Ford Brazil big block 112 x 132 7,781 engine.
Sabre 320L was based on Dagenham Dover block 105 x 115 5,950 engine.
Just to add to confusion Sabre 370L was a special block using Dover 115mm crank with Brazilian block 112 mm bore.

Each rating has its individual issues, Ford shut the Brazilian plant down almost 30 years ago and block was actually Dover on steroids and was always prone to cracking and have been NLA for years. The big block 112mm pistons are very difficult to source but can still be obtained from U.S. at a price!

Cannot remember which CAC 430L used but everything over 225L went in the skip following the CAT takeover therefor one has to assume NLA.

A few years ago I was involved in a legal dispute, vessel was being worked on by contractor who started engines but overlooked opening seacock, initially damage was thought to be restricted to raw water pump and exhaust, however later discovered that two pistons had picked up.

Due to lack of piston availability vessel ended up constructive total loss.

Great engines in their time but most surveyors are aware of the Sabre parts availability issues, regardless of how well engines run, selling any vessel with Sabre engines over 225hp is always going to be a challenge.

 

[omega2]

Giving OP advice on purchasing boat with Sabre 320L's by comparing with personal experience of Sabre 430L is apples, oranges and few grapes thrown in.

Sabre 430L was based on old Ford Brazil big block 112 x 132 7,781 engine.
Sabre 320L was based on Dagenham Dover block 105 x 115 5,950 engine.
Just to add to confusion Sabre 370L was a special block using Dover 115mm crank with Brazilian block 112 mm bore.

Each rating has its individual issues, Ford shut the Brazilian plant down almost 30 years ago and block was actually Dover on steroids and was always prone to cracking and have been NLA for years. The big block 112mm pistons are very difficult to source but can still be obtained from U.S. at a price!

Cannot remember which CAC 430L used but everything over 225L went in the skip following the CAT takeover therefor one has to assume NLA.

A few years ago I was involved in a legal dispute, vessel was being worked on by contractor who started engines but overlooked opening seacock, initially damage was thought to be restricted to raw water pump and exhaust, however later discovered that two pistons had picked up.

Due to lack of piston availability vessel ended up constructive total loss.

Great engines in their time but most surveyors are aware of the Sabre parts availability issues, regardless of how well engines run, selling any vessel with Sabre engines over 225hp is always going to be a challenge.

Make you right, tried to flog this 212 (needing overhaul) for £300 no takers so we had to strip it down to block and sump and bin it. We have all the ancillaries gathering dust in the shed.

 

[NigelChattin]

VolvoPaul - yes indeed, she is the Broom 44 which was originally called Moonraker 2. I assume you worked on her when she was moored at Newark?

Latestarter - Having enjoyed the advantages of the extensive Volvo dealer network previously, I understand your point around availability of spare parts for the larger Sabres. I would much prefer to know that wherever I go I'm never too far away from being able to get just about anything I could need, and that's just not the reality with the Sabres. That said, with a bit of searching, there's very little that can't be found somewhere.

You clearly have a very comprehensive knowledge of the different Sabre engines! I thought our experience with the 430l's was relevant because we had exactly the same concerns around buying a boat with large Sabre engines and it has, so far, proven to be ungrounded. I'm not sure the spares for the 320l's are any more or less available than the 430l's.

I wouldn't be deterred from buying a boat just because it is powered by large Sabres, and I certainly wouldn't immediately go to the expense of a re-power project if I bought it.

The other factor for us, which if I'm honest was more luck than better judgement, was that the majority of the other Broom 44's were fitted with Volvo tamd71b's. Whilst I know these are good engines (father-in-law had them in a Princess 415) I understand from other Broom owners that the extra power from the Sabres is no bad thing. I don't know what boat the OP is looking at but if the Sabres offer better performance they may be preferable to the alternatives. Of course though, depending on the boat, and what it is to be used for, that could be totally irrelevant.

 

[volvopaul]

I

VolvoPaul - yes indeed, she is the Broom 44 which was originally called Moonraker 2. I assume you worked on her when she was moored at Newark?

Latestarter - Having enjoyed the advantages of the extensive Volvo dealer network previously, I understand your point around availability of spare parts for the larger Sabres. I would much prefer to know that wherever I go I'm never too far away from being able to get just about anything I could need, and that's just not the reality with the Sabres. That said, with a bit of searching, there's very little that can't be found somewhere.

You clearly have a very comprehensive knowledge of the different Sabre engines! I thought our experience with the 430l's was relevant because we had exactly the same concerns around buying a boat with large Sabre engines and it has, so far, proven to be ungrounded. I'm not sure the spares for the 320l's are any more or less available than the 430l's.

I wouldn't be deterred from buying a boat just because it is powered by large Sabres, and I certainly wouldn't immediately go to the expense of a re-power project if I bought it.

The other factor for us, which if I'm honest was more luck than better judgement, was that the majority of the other Broom 44's were fitted with Volvo tamd71b's. Whilst I know these are good engines (father-in-law had them in a Princess 415) I understand from other Broom owners that the extra power from the Sabres is no bad thing. I don't know what boat the OP is looking at but if the Sabres offer better performance they may be preferable to the alternatives. Of course though, depending on the boat, and what it is to be used for, that could be totally irrelevant.

Yes I did work on here there , I can also remember when she was moored in ocean village way back in the 90s

 

[Mermaid-Jon]

If you need any advice on Ford Based Sabres, speak to Stephen Atkins at our Poole office 01202-677776.