Sabb 10 HP starting

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JCBOATING

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First thank you for the help to my last thread.
Now I bought the boat which was the subject , it`s now on my mooring. first day we cranked it and she run well . I was wondering about the starting process after a few plus attempts the engine went over and run well. when viewing the seller turned it quite easy and I am sure that's the case perhaps in a good climate not cold time. I need some tips both of us aboard at that time are able but I am sure there is a system with the compression setting seller has his money he is down the pub and now will not pick up the phone which is always the case . Any trips from anybody who may have and use this type engine especially winter months starting .I would be grateful . Thank you
 
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Yes., best in PBO. Meanwhile - they should start very easily - spin it up as fast as you can then drop the decompressor. If there are two of you, one cranks and the other drops the decompressor. If push comes to shove in a really cold climate you need "starter cigarettes".
 
Any idea on where or if you can buy the starting cigarettes I was aware there is a key turn to the chamber ,thank you
 
Yes; that's where they go.

Up to last year, you could get them on ebay, but the supplier seems to be out of stock. Try Sabb themselves, or you can make your own by soaking blotting paper in a warm solution of potassium nitrate, drying it and rolling it up...

zuendfix2.jpg
 
Thank you ,In reading the manual the decompression lever should have been pulled whilst wheel turning full what may of happened is we where turning to speed then releasing the decompression lever in that split second speed could have been lost next visit I will work on that. Issues of cold starting hard to buy starting cigarettes I could make them but in London trying to buy the little amount of compounds needed well that will or may take all my boating time explaining why that sort of compound was trying to be obtained !!! So I think ,25 year ago I run an old Perkings diesel 2 LITRE I bought off a farmer I came from a dairy farm we called it the Green Goddess , It was from the 70`s and in the winter 6.00 am well below zero , I would spray easy start straight in to the carb , all said it may damage the head but I had to get to work. Salt Peater ? , dried on blotting paper a starting cigarette , out of the question in this day and age , would that bang the chamber just as much as Easy start , common place was the coal lorry he used a burning ethor rag straight over the carb that was the early 60`s I grew up watching him as a kid.
Comments on using a sensible spray of easy start in the chamber where the starting cigarette should be placed ? ANYBODY THANK YOU !
 
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JCBOATING said:
Comments on using a sensible spray of easy start in the chamber where the starting cigarette should be placed ? ANYBODY THANK YOU !
Click to expand...

Try using a small squirt of Easy Start into the intake or this "cigarette" place (something I've never heard of) and see if it helps.

Ignore any comments on here or elsewere about engines getting addicted to Easy Start. Machines don't get addicted to anything although using Easy Start may mask other developing problems so, when conditions are suitable, try not using it.

Richard
 
JCBOATING said:
Comments on using a sensible spray of easy start in the chamber where the starting cigarette should be placed ? ANYBODY THANK YOU !
Click to expand...

The use of Easy Start etc is not recommended for diesel engines because you have no control over the timing of the ignition. Mechanical damage can occur if ignition occurs to soon in the cycle. If Skipper Stu comes this way he will elaborate.

This is not a problem with petrol engines because the ignition timing is determined by the spark timing in the usual way.
 
You absolutely do not need to use the cigarettes to start this engine in U.K. Summer time temps and indeed not in U.K. Winter temperatures. How are you trying to start the engine, by hand or by starter motor? If the compression and fuel system are in good working order and normal uk temperatures you can easily hand start this engine with one hand on the handle and the other on the decompression lever. However, if the compression is not so good it is almost impossible. My engine always started from starter motor before the rebuild and I could just about do it with the handle with two people. When I stripped it down the piston rings and cylinder were right on the edge of the tolerences stated in the manual. Cigarettes are not the answer.
 
I agree. I have always found these little engines very easy to hand start. They are lovely things.

When I bought the boat I have now I found five cans of ether lying around. I threw them out, and then I threw out the BMC 1.5 engine. It had left the works in 1967 so it didn't owe anyone anything...
 
I had a Sabb 8 for 10 years in a Golden Hind 31, It needed a cigarette on cold mornings.
The trick in starting is to throw the decompression lever when the handle is at the bottom so you can add to the flywheel momentum by the upward pull of the handle.

Plank
 
Plank, I have no doubt the cigarettes will aid starting when cold, especially in the depths of a Norweigen winter. However, I suspect that many people who have owned these engines in the past may have been using and running them with low compression without realising, many of them would have done thousands of hours and they will still run and start using starter motor even though the rings and bore are severely worn. Since completing my rebuild I am able to clearly see the difference in hand starting with the new cylinder liner and piston rings. The cigarettes are for hand starting when it is -20 degrees c.

Kieran
 
K-ron said:
Plank, I have no doubt the cigarettes will aid starting when cold, especially in the depths of a Norweigen winter. However, I suspect that many people who have owned these engines in the past may have been using and running them with low compression without realising, many of them would have done thousands of hours and they will still run and start using starter motor even though the rings and bore are severely worn. Since completing my rebuild I am able to clearly see the difference in hand starting with the new cylinder liner and piston rings. The cigarettes are for hand starting when it is -20 degrees c.

Kieran
Click to expand...

I agree. (The" starter cigarettes" are actually a hangover from the days of "semi-diesels"). I can remember walking up to the Sabb stand at the Earls' Court Boat Show and casually swinging the handle - it was connected to nothing and sitting on blocks but it started! Whoops! Decompressor lifted double quick!
 
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Hi
Hopefully I can help you here...
At the risk of boring you....a fair time ago I used to work on a ship as a marine engineer. Part of my weekly tasks as a young and keen 4th engineer officer was to look after and start the 4 life boats. As it happens they had sabb 10hp engines in them.
To add a little more boredom...there was three ways of starting hear particular engines.
1st and easiest way was by key and starter motor...no problem
2nd way was by compressed air. There was an accumulator which needed topped up occasionally. When operational, a pedal would be pressed and compressed air was forced to rotate the engine and start it.
3rd way and perhaps if most interest to you was by a hand crank and compression lever.
So, the first two ways were normal a successful means of starting the engines from cold...but if you were to try and start from cold using the handle and compression lever from cold, it wasn't easy.
But...being a life boat, one had to make certain that all of these boats would start from cold, using every means of starting.
Eventually, we get to my point....
Having done this week after week, month after month and year after year....when starting from cold using handle and compression levers, I found the most effective and efficient way of doing this is to open the compression levers then crank the handle over at a comfortable pace for at least 15-20 times. This builds up a bit of oil pressure and thus some sealing of the piston rings etc.
Once you have done this, go for it like nobodies business for a few revolutions and close the levers on an upward stroke of the cranking handle !
Hopefully this made sense....and if I'm rambling...apologies...not long in from the pub !
 
QBhoy said:
Hi
Hopefully I can help you here...
At the risk of boring you....a fair time ago I used to work on a ship as a marine engineer. Part of my weekly tasks as a young and keen 4th engineer officer was to look after and start the 4 life boats. As it happens they had sabb 10hp engines in them.
To add a little more boredom...there was three ways of starting hear particular engines.
1st and easiest way was by key and starter motor...no problem
2nd way was by compressed air. There was an accumulator which needed topped up occasionally. When operational, a pedal would be pressed and compressed air was forced to rotate the engine and start it.
3rd way and perhaps if most interest to you was by a hand crank and compression lever.
So, the first two ways were normal a successful means of starting the engines from cold...but if you were to try and start from cold using the handle and compression lever from cold, it wasn't easy.
But...being a life boat, one had to make certain that all of these boats would start from cold, using every means of starting.
Eventually, we get to my point....
Having done this week after week, month after month and year after year....when starting from cold using handle and compression levers, I found the most effective and efficient way of doing this is to open the compression levers then crank the handle over at a comfortable pace for at least 15-20 times. This builds up a bit of oil pressure and thus some sealing of the piston rings etc.
Once you have done this, go for it like nobodies business for a few revolutions and close the levers on an upward stroke of the cranking handle !
Hopefully this made sense....and if I'm rambling...apologies...not long in from the pub !
Click to expand...

Great anecdotal info. The only other thing that has not been mentioned as of yet and is in the original engine manual, is to squirt engine oil down the pipe on top of the rocker cover that feeds oil through the inlet valve, seals the rings and raises the compression. The original manual does not say how much oil to squirt but the additional notes provided from Sabb South state 6 full squirts from the oil can. A similar effect to turning the engine over 20/30 times as mentioned by QBoy, probably not raising the oil pressure as such but manually splash lubricating the piston and rings.
QBoy when you say starting from cold, what sort of temperatures are we talking? Where was your ship based?
 
RichardS said:
Try using a small squirt of Easy Start into the intake or this "cigarette" place (something I've never heard of) and see if it helps.

Ignore any comments on here or elsewere about engines getting addicted to Easy Start. Machines don't get addicted to anything although using Easy Start may mask other developing problems so, when conditions are suitable, try not using it.

Richard
Click to expand...

Please DO NOT use easy start on this beautiful engine. They don't need this. My Sabb would start on the button even on the coldest winter day. Just squirt a few shots of oil into the chamber designed just for this purpose on the rocker cover. Mine never need ciggies to start. Easy start contains a chemical that ignites at the wrong time wrecking the engine over time.
 
chrishelen said:
Please DO NOT use easy start on this beautiful engine. They don't need this. My Sabb would start on the button even on the coldest winter day. Just squirt a few shots of oil into the chamber designed just for this purpose on the rocker cover. Mine never need ciggies to start. Easy start contains a chemical that ignites at the wrong time wrecking the engine over time.
Click to expand...

Thankfully no two engineers will agree on anything ..... life would be boring otherwise. ;)

I'll just copy and paste from the first website I found:

Even up to 1990 the Leyland Freighters had an Ether starting system as standard which involved a small reservoir of ether that was pumped into the inlet manifold by means of a hand pump in the cab.

We had 1993 Seddon Atkinsons with Cummins L10s that had the start pilot ether injector system..Leylands...aecs..was almost std fiting years ago.

I had an '84 Cargo Horse Lorry with an 'Easystart' reservoir of sorts on it but I never knew what I was supposed to fill it with so on cold days I just chucked a petrol can cap of petrol down the intake and she fired up with a fine roar.

Lots of trucks had ether start assist on them. IIRK, Cummins didn't have an excess fuel button, hence the bottle of ether.

So did the Transit fitted with the York engine.

At least some diesel engineers agree avec moi. :encouragement:

Richard
 
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