RYA vs IYT - thoughts?

[pipemma]

I've searched the forum and googled and found little illumination so I thought I'd just ask the question...

I recently had someone ask me whether the RYA or IYT scheme is better to pursue for someone wanting to work commercially as skipper of e.g. a boat taking people out to see whales etc. Most of the info I can find about IYT is clearly sourced from IYT's own copy, and the lack of other info also suggests to me that it may not be so widely known, but they do claim to be a more commercially-oriented organisation. Do any kind souls on the forum have any views on the relative merits of the two schemes? Is an RYA Yachtmaster more leisure-oriented? Is IYT more useful for non-UK-flagged vessels? I'd like to offer some feedback but know practically nothing about IYT (is that in itself significant?). Many thanks in advance
Pipemma

 

[Woodlouse]

What's IYT?

The RYA yachtmaster is internationally recognised. Whether you want the course to be leisure or commercially orientated can depend a lot on where you do the course as some schools specialise in training people for professional yachting whilst others tend to train people who sail for a hobby.

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

I've searched the forum and googled and found little illumination so I thought I'd just ask the question...

I recently had someone ask me whether the RYA or IYT scheme is better to pursue for someone wanting to work commercially as skipper of e.g. a boat taking people out to see whales etc. Most of the info I can find about IYT is clearly sourced from IYT's own copy, and the lack of other info also suggests to me that it may not be so widely known, but they do claim to be a more commercially-oriented organisation. Do any kind souls on the forum have any views on the relative merits of the two schemes? Is an RYA Yachtmaster more leisure-oriented? Is IYT more useful for non-UK-flagged vessels? I'd like to offer some feedback but know practically nothing about IYT (is that in itself significant?). Many thanks in advance
Pipemma

I think the fact you have not heard of them is significant, also the fact the besides their own websites there is no information readily available.

When they say they are a more commercially minded organisation they are right. Everything they do is for profit, while their is nothing wrong with this in itself it makes them a very different organisation than a governing body.

At the moment you can become the IYT equivalent of an Ocean Yachtmaster without actually sailing an Ocean Passage! I think its ironic that European crew fly across the Atlantic to take a theory course in Florida and then claim is is equivalent to someone who sailed across the same ocean and was examined on their passage.

The IYT practical exam can carry 5 candidates, the RYA have opted to limit the exam to four. I think most RYA examiners will tell you that examining 4 candidates at once is actually quite hard work. I don't honestly belive i could do justice to more than 4 candidates at once, not only do you start to run out of different things to assess them all on but handling 4 exams running at the same time is quite demanding.

The IYT scheme covers the courses that are required by law to skipper a yacht or work in super yachting. They do not offer the other courses that provide for an all round training scheme (ie dinghy and keelboat sailing, intermediate power boating and so on.

The IYT scheme allows centres to set up geographically where ever they want. The RYA have and do sometimes tell business owners that a particular location is not suitable for an RYA centre as their is limited or no opportunities to teach practical boat handling and pilotage. While the business owner in question might not like this it helps maintain a certain level of quality

RYA centres are inspected at start up and annually, IYT centres are not

RYA instructors become qualified by attending an RYA Instructor Course, IYT Instructors can qualify on the back of their CV and an application form.

So a IYT school can set up and neither the school or it its staff have actually been looked at first hand by IYT themselves as long as the Principal has paid out £2,400 USD to IYT.

I am sure there are many other differences, but many of the super yacht Captains and Crew Agencies I work with have employed crew from both backgrounds. Their common feeling is that the RYA trained crew are of a higher standard than the IYT candidates.

 

[Uricanejack]

I think the first question is where do you want to work and on what type of boat.

I honestly couldn’t tell you one way or another which course is better.
With most courses it the quality of the training which counts rather than the test at the end.. The quality of the training depends on the quality of the school and it s instructors.

In either case the experience which goes with it is often much more important. Not every employer understands this but most of the good ones do.

Once you know where you want to work. Find out what certificates are valid in the location.
STCW 95 means a certificate meets an internationally recognised minimum standard. It does not mean an STCW 95 certificate is accepted everywhere. Many if not most countries require there own certificates on there own vessels. Some will regard others as equivalent and choose to accept or issue an equivalent certificate of their own.

Ask the authorities in the jurisdiction you would like to work in what they recognise and require and do the course they accept

 

[pipemma]

Thank you for the replies, gentlemen. I'm an RYA girl myself and wondered if I was being blinkered, but your responses have corroborated my gut feel. I'll pass the info on and let the chap make up his own mind. Much appreciated

 

[Daedelus]

I'd be very careful of them, they seem to be saying they can teach all levels of Yachtmaster but say the instructors have to be IYT accredited but Yachtmaster is the RYAs own jealously guarded terminology and is meant to be shown with a copyright symbol and the RYA have already fought one legal battle to prevent a foreign school (Aussie I think) from using the name Yachtmaster. If they are doing the genuine YM courses then the RYA will have to have accredited the instructors and the school itself yet there is no mention of RYA training centre anywhere on their blurb. I wonder why not?

 

[alant]

What's IYT?

The RYA yachtmaster is internationally recognised. Whether you want the course to be leisure or commercially orientated can depend a lot on where you do the course as some schools specialise in training people for professional yachting whilst others tend to train people who sail for a hobby.

IIRC, IYT used the term Yachtmaster & RYA claimed copyright but lost. They then put the little R copyright label on afterward.

If anyone wants to work commercially under UK regs, the need to ask the MCA if a IYT qualification can be commercially endorsed. I think the MCA farm this out as a sort of franchise to the RYA, so perhaps a catch 22 situation. I may be wrong on the 'franchise'.

 

[alant]

I think the first question is where do you want to work and on what type of boat.

I honestly couldn’t tell you one way or another which course is better.
With most courses it the quality of the training which counts rather than the test at the end.. The quality of the training depends on the quality of the school and it s instructors.

In either case the experience which goes with it is often much more important. Not every employer understands this but most of the good ones do.

Once you know where you want to work. Find out what certificates are valid in the location.
STCW 95 means a certificate meets an internationally recognised minimum standard. It does not mean an STCW 95 certificate is accepted everywhere. Many if not most countries require there own certificates on there own vessels. Some will regard others as equivalent and choose to accept or issue an equivalent certificate of their own.

Ask the authorities in the jurisdiction you would like to work in what they recognise and require and do the course they accept

An STCW 95, is NOT a qualification which allows you to skipper/captain 'any' vessel.
Its a certification requirement for anyone (including hairdressers/entertainers) working on 'merchant' vessels.

 

[pipemma]

IYT claim (prominently on their web site) that their master of yachts qualification is accredited by the MCA. They very carefully don't use the name Yachtmaster, although I suspect they're hoping people will use verbal shorthand

 

[Roberto]

Is IYT more useful for non-UK-flagged vessels?

For that purpose, ie commercial use on non-UK units, I think they are both at the same level, meaning it is very, very hard to convert either of them into a foreign title.
My direct experience: I have a commercial and STCW endorsed RYA/MCA Yachtmaster, I asked about its conversion in France, Belgium, Italy and Spain and none of them accepted.
Both the RYA and IYT YM are shown as compliant with STCW code A-VI (basically, having followed the Basic Safety Training), which is not the STCW section about management title, and hardly any foreign authority would convert it into a local one.
What foreign authorities require (at least those I mentioned) is an STCW A-II compliant certificate, neither the RYA "STCW endorsed YM" nor the IYT are. Both write "Master of Yacht 200" on their titles/endorsements but then they add "STCW A-VI1" which says it all.

Should you want to work as a commercial skipper on non-uk flagged vessels, I'd suggest to either take the local country qualification, or the "MCA Master of Yacht 200GRT", which is STCW A-II compliant hence it is a lot more likely to be converted into the local title, at least in the countries I mentioned.
A prerequisite to get this MCA Master 200T qualification is a Yachtmaster certificate (practical and shorebased), the MCA accepts both the RYA Yachtmaster and the IYT Yachtmaster. There will be an oral exam, and depending on the area you might probably need a ROC/GOC radio certificate (SRC and LRC are not commercial radio certificates), and often a Medical too.

hope this helps

 

[john_morris_uk]

Without going into the legal niceties of the whole 'name game' of Yachtmaster.

I think a particularly relevant question is this:

If the IYT 'qualification' is so good, why have I conducted so many Yachtmaster exams for people holding the IYT ticket? Several times I have had to conduct practical YM exams for people who have gone through the IYT process. The answer is that they wanted to work on superyachts and the owners weren't happy with the IYT process and accrediation. Says it all to me.

I obviously declare an interest as an RYA/MCA Yachtmaster Examiner.

I though that the RYA won their legal fight over the 'Yachtmaster' name. One of the reasons the American school has changed its title etc. They were trying to ride on the back of the RYA Yachtmaster Scheme for all the wrong and right reasons.

 

[Ariadne]

Be careful out there, there is talk around that some operators are talking about not employing Masters with RYA commercially endorsed tickets, they want MCA issued CoCs, this route is via the official OOW, and oral interview route or by converting a Class 2 or Class 1 Fishing CoC to STCW/MCA Master 200/500 OOW 500/3000.

 

[alant]

I've searched the forum and googled and found little illumination so I thought I'd just ask the question...

I recently had someone ask me whether the RYA or IYT scheme is better to pursue for someone wanting to work commercially as skipper of e.g. a boat taking people out to see whales etc. Most of the info I can find about IYT is clearly sourced from IYT's own copy, and the lack of other info also suggests to me that it may not be so widely known, but they do claim to be a more commercially-oriented organisation. Do any kind souls on the forum have any views on the relative merits of the two schemes? Is an RYA Yachtmaster more leisure-oriented? Is IYT more useful for non-UK-flagged vessels? I'd like to offer some feedback but know practically nothing about IYT (is that in itself significant?). Many thanks in advance
Pipemma

This same topic, seems to have been discussed almost as many times as anchors.
Take your pick from any of these https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rya+v+IYT+site:www.ybw.com&biw=1024&bih=395

 

[Uricanejack]

An STCW 95, is NOT a qualification which allows you to skipper/captain 'any' vessel.
Its a certification requirement for anyone (including hairdressers/entertainers) working on 'merchant' vessels.

I did not suggest STCW 95 was a qualification.

It's a standard.

Not all merchant vessels require STCW 95. Domestic only are exempt.

Private yachts are also exempt providing no silver crosses ones palm.

 

[Uricanejack]

Not knowing anything about the IYT. I don't wish to critise its quality.

But I do wonder why anyone wishing to find work on a yacht in the Uk would choose this over the RYA. It would be like having a Rum and Tesco Cola. While I might not refuse one if offered I rather have the "real thing" If I had a choice.

If you want to find work in Florida a local Training school may have local connections to employment after wards. I would be wary of those which charge for job oppertunities.
If I wanted to find work there. I would probably choose an American recognised piece of paper and only if I had a green card.

Going to Florida to get an MCA approved cert which would be no good on an American boat. Why?

 

[Uricanejack]

What's IYT?

The RYA yachtmaster is internationally recognised. Whether you want the course to be leisure or commercially orientated can depend a lot on where you do the course as some schools specialise in training people for professional yachting whilst others tend to train people who sail for a hobby.

I didn't have a clue either.
So I googled it or iyt.

According to IYT website.

The gold standard in yacht training and certification.
The worlds most widely recognised yacht training and certification.
The world only international yacht training and certification
recognised by 17 countries.

According to the selection of 17 little flags.

The USA is not one of them. Hmmm

 

[john_morris_uk]

I didn't have a clue either.
So I googled it or iyt.

According to IYT website.

The gold standard in yacht training and certification.
The worlds most widely recognised yacht training and certification.
The world only international yacht training and certification
recognised by 17 countries.

According to the selection of 17 little flags.

The USA is not one of them. Hmmm

One of the best examples of bluster and bluff over substance that I've seen in a while...

 

[alant]

Not knowing anything about the IYT. I don't wish to critise its quality.

But I do wonder why anyone wishing to find work on a yacht in the Uk would choose this over the RYA. It would be like having a Rum and Tesco Cola. While I might not refuse one if offered I rather have the "real thing" If I had a choice.

If you want to find work in Florida a local Training school may have local connections to employment after wards. I would be wary of those which charge for job oppertunities.
If I wanted to find work there. I would probably choose an American recognised piece of paper and only if I had a green card.

Going to Florida to get an MCA approved cert which would be no good on an American boat. Why?

These guys do training for superyacht crews/Captains & did do some in Florida.
http://www.bluewateryachting.com/crew-training

 

[alant]

I did not suggest STCW 95 was a qualification.

It's a standard.

Not all merchant vessels require STCW 95. Domestic only are exempt.

Private yachts are also exempt providing no silver crosses ones palm.

This, is from a US site, but explains STCW 95
http://www.stcw.org/

 

[Woodlouse]

I did not suggest STCW 95 was a qualification.

It's a standard.

Not all merchant vessels require STCW 95. Domestic only are exempt.

Private yachts are also exempt providing no silver crosses ones palm.

The MCA have moved the goalposts recently. I think the upshot now is that there isn't really a difference between private and commercial as regards what qualifications you need.