RYA money money money

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tangomoon

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We thought we'd join the RYA and explore the fantastic world of discounts, of their prices, advice, free International Certificate of Competence - OOhHH we thought! - What do we need to get that - ring them up - Day skipper not good enough - Yachtmaster theory not good enough - Power boat level 2 - Yes, but only for a power boat up to 10 metres - we have a yacht would it do for that? - NO - you need Yachtmaster practical - £3/400 ish for automatic qualification to ICC.

As an aside - wife thought she'd like to teach theory to youngsters say up to 18 about seamanship or to Day Skipper standard - for free except for cost of books - can't expect the RYA to supply them for nothing - fair enough - What do you need to qualify as teacher for Day Skipper theory? - Yachtmaster Practical - £3/400 ish quids - so much for our wish to help youngsters get going. It isn't even the money - she doesn't want to take the Yachtmaster Practical not that she can't she does all the navigation, sails up/down/trim/logbook/weather/helps teach Yachtmaster theory to adults has done Physics, Pure Maths, Applied Maths. So we're talking one of the sharpest tools in the box here.

The conflicting advice and statements from that organisation don't help matters either. Any thoughts to get through the shambles we all know or shouldwe just leave the kids on the streets to do enough mischief until they get an ASBO/ Caution/added to the increasing list of disaffected.

RYA as PBO mentioned has been short of teachers in the past and -well we don't care about that - they do have a monopoly though and its a lovely money making one that is affecting us all.

Well that's the blue touch paper lit.
 
I suspect you would be more suited to dealing with one of those online degree mill places in the US, most of us here prefer certificated people to have properly demonstrated their ability against recognised standards.
 
Well there's no substitute for education is there?
You have not read the post in a seamanlike manner either. As you are a little, less sharp, literate or disadvantaged I will take the salient (important) points and list them for you.

We are qualified. Not just in yachting. Other qualifications are from British establishments starting with GCEs when that meant something i.e. the days before they split it into three capability tiers, upwards.

We have sailed thousands of miles at night and in daylight.
It isn't the qualification it's the cost of getting it.
 
I have an ICC application form in front of me, Day Skipper practical is acceptable evidence of competence for an ICC, amongst many other similar levels.
 
I agree with much of your sentiment, but if you want to teach an RYA theory course, its probably fair that you have the next higher practical qualification. I would want to learn from someone who had done the practical exam, as this may be the pupil's goal. Otherwise the theory and practical can get too disconnected.
The practical exam need not cost £300, you could do it on your own boat with some friends. Don't take this harshly, but if you think yourself good enough to teach, you won't be needing the four days prep course will you?

I've got A level maths and a degree in Physics, but I got a lot out off the prep course. Did it out of Dartmouth in a Hallberg Rassy- Devon Sailing I think theyre called now. It was nice to sail in a different context with some new people.

You could of course do informal teaching of navigation outside of the RYA scheme, organisations like the Sea Scouts might be interested, more likely to reach non-yottie kids that way?

You're right about the RYA though, what gets me is paying them 3 or 4 times - Personal Member, 2 clubs, class association! But I do get a fiver off the Almanac.
 
someone at the RYA has told u wrong or misunderstood what you were asking.. Day skipper practical is all that's required for ICC issue--- or alteratively u can just take the test for ICC... anyone can teach navigation to anyone else --- you just can't call yourself an RYA recognised sea school.
 
Yes anyone can teach naviagtion to anyone else but my wife would like to teach it for free to youngsters for them to get a qualification.

Do try to read the post and not state the obvious
 
So if you wish to see the cost of getting a qualification reduced, which part would you like to see cut? You have a choice of...

Assessor / Instructors' fee - nobody gets rich assessing, and even lower fees would drive the better ones out of the market,

Cost of maintaing the database of those qualified - probably not much anyway but even the RYA can't be expected to work for nothing,

Assessor / Instructors' insurance cover - a large part of any course cost is the centre's insurance

If you think the costs you have been quoted are high, try looking at some of the commercial STCW course costs!

As I understand it, you don't have to be an RYA instructor to teach the content of an RYA course - for example, you could teach a powerboat course up to RYA standard and then get people directly assessed by someone who is RYA accredited. Of course, while you're teaching it you can't call it an RYA course or imply that you are in any way RYA accredited...
 
As others have said, DS practical gets you an ICC - my wife got one recently. Perhaps you are talking about DS theory - in which case why on earth would that be a substitute for a practical boat handling qualification?

Teaching-wise, I think it is quite sensible that you need a YM qualification to award RYA qualifications at lower levels. If the RYA just took anyones' word that they were fit to teach the scheme wouldn't have the reputation it does. Your wife can do the YM practical exam on your own boat (with you as crew should she so desire) and all it will cost is the exam fee (currently £115 I believe).

It is nothing to do with making money - it is to do with providing a reputable internationally recognised training scheme (and who knows, perhaps even staving off further regulation for a while yet . . . )

- W
 
'to youngsters for them to get a qualification.'
This is the problem, it's the qualification, that's valued, not the knowledge/understanding/fascination/inspiration of the subject.
For the qualifications to remain valued, the RYA must have standards. If you view the theory as a milestone toward the practical, then I think the requirement to have the practical is reasonable. You can't have a different standard for theory teaching just because your aims are a little different, if its the same certificate.
 
I really can't see the relevance of GCE to yachting. You may well be a cosmologist with a very detailed knowledge of quantum mechanics but it won't help you sail a boat.

If indeed you have sailed thousands of miles in daylight and at night you may well be very experienced and know all that there is to know, in which case you can apply to take a practical and theoretical exam at any level without paying more than the relevant fee for the exam as I understand it. If on the other hand you think you need to go on a course to ensure that you are up to the required standard you expect to pay surely?
 
You are all obsessed by 'qualifications'.

For amateur sailors qualifications are uneccesary. So no need to part with money x 3.

Novice sailors need good instruction and fun experience. Give 'em as much control as possible. Why within, 20 mins you can demonstrate your confidence in them by going below 'to do the navigation' in good conditions.

I'm not saying formal quals are not good, but with a patient skipper and a willingness to learn it is just as good. And free of charge.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yes anyone can teach naviagtion to anyone else but my wife would like to teach it for free to youngsters for them to get a qualification.

Do try to read the post and not state the obvious

[/ QUOTE ]

Why so arsey? Got out of the wrong side of bed? not getting enough??

Looks to me like people have read the post, and that you might "need" to hear the obvious /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

were you speaking to the RYA, or to a school?

You can get an ICC by booking an examiner to do it on your own boat.. probably takes a half to a full day, and you can both do it for the cost of the examiner... probably £150+expenses. Me and my old man did it this way in 2004. I think it was about £100 + exes..

For YM, as has been said, you can do it on your own boat for the cost of the examiner for a day, and you can both do it at the same time. Probably about £150 each or so. Make sure you have good crew who know you, your boat, and are able to pre-empt a few things that you might forget.

To teach "and" give quals, you should be a qualified instructor, and you should know how the relevant body want you to instruct ... £300/£400 doesnt sound a lot to achieve this. It doesnt really matter whether you teach for free, the RYA need to know that what you are providing for free is actually worth what their name represents.

So... tomorrow.... get up on the other side of the bed, and see if you dont feel a bit better about things

Cheers

Richard
 
What a confused ( and confusing) person you seem to be. You seem to be moaning about the cost "£3/400 and then say
"it`s not about the money -she doesn`t want to take the YM Practicle exam."
I would have thought that with all her experience she could have booked an examiner on your own yacht (?) and just take the exam for much lower cost than £3/400. pass it straight off ,and then start to impart her huge amount of knowledge to those in need. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I must admit I don't really see what you are moaning about, qualifications cost money, that's life, many people aquire them whether they be academic or practical like the RYA ones just for the personal satisfaction. I too have many sea miles under my belt both for pleasure and profesionaly, but if I want RYA paper I need to follow their scheme, that's quite reasonable to me. I do not know of any organisation that does freeby qualifications just because the recipient claims they will not charge when they put those qualifications to use.
 
On reading the RYA info:

"All candidates should hold the RYA/MCA Yachtmaster® Offshore Certificate of
Competence, (or for those wishing to teach Day Skipper Shorebased ONLY be an
Advanced Powerboat Instructor) be active cruising or offshore yachtsmen or
yachtswomen and have successfully completed the Yachtmaster® Shorebased
Certificate in the last five years."

It appears you need YM THEORY to teach Day Skipper shorebased, which seems fair enough.

It gets expensive if you intend to do this unpaid; you will also need a 2 day shorebased instructor qualification course, at £185, which does assure ability to teach. To award certificates you will need to be a Recognised Training Centre, about £70 per year. It does mount up.
 
you joined in part to take advantage of the free ICC.. well, the ICC is only free IF you have the relevant RYA qualifications. Bear in mind, this was set up so when boating abroad you dont need to become qualified in a host of countries you might visit. So its not a certificate of competence they just hand out for free, just for being an RYA member??? So, if you dont have the required qualifications, what do you expect?
Then, you divert from teaching some kids for free, to teaching as a qualified RYA instructor. Well, surely if you wish to teach as a qualified instructor, they are going to expect you to, er, become qualified. No one is stopping your wife from using the course material, and teaching to an RYA level, but she cant do so as a qualified instructor if she is not, and of course cant grant assess/examine either.
Am I missing something here??
 
Quote:
"Do try to read the post and not state the obvious"

Is not a very good manner in which to embark on instructing youngsters (or anyone).

Perhaps the RYA course would be a good start.

Ian
 
I do sympathise with Tangomoon to a large extent, laying out 400 quid because you want to benefit others is a fair amount of cash after all.
But it would also give you the ICC which has some value.
A couple of years ago I had a very interesting day crewing for a couple of friends as they did YM practical. They'd chartered a boat for the day, having had I think a day brushing up with an instructor. They were quite experienced people and both deservedly passed, but on balance I would still go the prep course route. Theres a lot in YM, and I certainly needed to revise some of it. Also, it was very interesting to observe a really good instructor in action, picking up techniques for explaining some of the concepts, keeping people involved etc.

Also a certain thread in the scuttlebutt forum reminds me that being Master of a Yacht is as much about managing the crew as it is about navigation or sailing. Doing a course with a bunch of strangers was quite valuable to me.
The problem for many people is finding a spare week.

Personally, although YM is a necessary qualification, I don't think its the end of the story, it doesn't make you a teacher, that's a gift I don't have much of!

£400? Its only the price of 4 tins of paint!
 
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