RYA money money money

[tangomoon]

We thought we'd join the RYA and explore the fantastic world of discounts, of their prices, advice, free International Certificate of Competence - OOhHH we thought! - What do we need to get that - ring them up - Day skipper not good enough - Yachtmaster theory not good enough - Power boat level 2 - Yes, but only for a power boat up to 10 metres - we have a yacht would it do for that? - NO - you need Yachtmaster practical - £3/400 ish for automatic qualification to ICC.

As an aside - wife thought she'd like to teach theory to youngsters say up to 18 about seamanship or to Day Skipper standard - for free except for cost of books - can't expect the RYA to supply them for nothing - fair enough - What do you need to qualify as teacher for Day Skipper theory? - Yachtmaster Practical - £3/400 ish quids - so much for our wish to help youngsters get going. It isn't even the money - she doesn't want to take the Yachtmaster Practical not that she can't she does all the navigation, sails up/down/trim/logbook/weather/helps teach Yachtmaster theory to adults has done Physics, Pure Maths, Applied Maths. So we're talking one of the sharpest tools in the box here.

The conflicting advice and statements from that organisation don't help matters either. Any thoughts to get through the shambles we all know or shouldwe just leave the kids on the streets to do enough mischief until they get an ASBO/ Caution/added to the increasing list of disaffected.

RYA as PBO mentioned has been short of teachers in the past and -well we don't care about that - they do have a monopoly though and its a lovely money making one that is affecting us all. Well that's the blue touch paper lit.

 

[alan006]

Sorry to hear that you were unhappy with the RYA. Maybe I've been lucky but I've always found them very helpful.
Not long ago you could do the Powerboat level 2 and that get an ICC for power up to 24metres. I assume this must have led to some problems as they changed the system recently.
My experience is that the RYA are very keen to help get people through their courses if at all possible. What I found when I did my Powerboat Instructors course last year was the standard of boat handling and theory required as an instructor was a big step up from that to pass say Advanced Powerboat. I agree with that ( although I might have felt differently if I hadn't past /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif), as an instructor it is sensible to expect much higher standards so as a trainee you get good instruction.
My suggestion is that your wife follows through the RYA system, it might not be perfect but it does a pretty good job.
Good luck with it.

 

[tangomoon]

Sometimes the system can be changed for the better and that vchange can only come about by refusing to follow blindly.

As to the RYA we are merely atempting to make them take a closer look at what they are doing. Do read the last PBO it has an article close to what we are saying.

We have had a vast amount of in-depth contact with the RYA over the past months and do not intend to go into that.

Your experience was fortunate. A search on here for the past year or two will show others were less so.

Over the shoulder remarks are pointless. Thank you for your good luck wishes.

 

[lw395]

I agree the RYA has some flaws, I suspect we might agree on what they are.
However I would say that YM theory and YM practice should be seen as one subject. The only useful endpoints are the recognised dayskipper/coastal/skipper/ym tickets. The shorebased certs are only meaningful as a subset of this, unlessthey are just general interest, few people have 'navigating a desk' as a goal. I think anyone teaching theory should be qualified practically to the
level that the pupil should aspire, and that to me means YM.
I wouldn't want the oh-so neat and precise theory to diverge any further from the heeled at 30 degrees in the dark reality.
I think maybe the RYA can be a problem in itself, as can clubs, the government, councils, but there will always be certs and training courses required.
BTW I have heard of some courses being funded by lottery money where the eventual benefit is to a good cause.
Don't be put off by the RYA, sailing is bigger than them! (or do I mean 'us'? I am a member too!)

 

[tangomoon]

Thans for the reply

"I wouldn't want the oh-so neat and precise theory to
diverge any further from the heeled at 30 degrees in
the dark reality."

Which is why she only wants to teach THEORY and Day Skipper at that.

Please pay attention.

 

[peterb]

Many years ago, when the RYA scheme had only just started, I took what was then called "National Coastal II" at an evening class; roughly the equivalent of Day Skipper now. The instructor was a day-time teacher, who I suspect had boned-up on the theory from a book. He had no practical experience. The result was disaster. Within two months the class, originally 24, was down to 8. Yes, he knew the theory; he just couldn't apply it to a boat. I remember, for instance, the occasion on which he was asked how much leeway should be allowed; "Don't worry about that, it will always be given in the question." So I can understand why the RYA wants its instructors to have a practical background, and why they want that background to be assessed independently.

I stayed to the end because I wanted that bit of paper, and the course was so bad that it fascinated me. I don't think I learnt much from it. Six years later I passed as a Yachtmaster Instructor, and have been teaching ever since, both shorebased and practical. The RYA scheme is respected world-wide, and one of the reasons is the care they take in properly qualifying their instructors. Long may it remain so.

 

[Pye_End]

I am sure students would generally feel as though they are getting better value for money if they know that their teacher was able to put theory into practice. What better way of demonstrating this than for the teacher to have Yachtmaster practical.

 

[tangomoon]

[ QUOTE ]
"Don't worry about that, it will always be given in the question."

[/ QUOTE ]

That would depend on the context.

Fall out from RYA courses, evening classes as a whole is high even now. Then it was cheapish to take and so people dropped out. I am told the fall out is 30-60% so there's no change from when it started apart from affordability.

Also the pupil is expected to transfer the knowledge gained to his boat. The RYA doesn't nanny pupils all the way, they supply the wherewithal for you to move forward and continue learning.

 

[tangomoon]

Thanks for the intelligent comments. Maybe but the guys teaching the astronauts weren't astronauts.

 

[jimbaerselman]

[ QUOTE ]
but the guys teaching the astronauts weren't astronauts.

[/ QUOTE ] No, they weren't. But the trainers were practical people who had learnt how to teach themselves to fly a wide range of flying machines, and taught themselves how to manage complex equipments in fraught environments. They passed on those practical self-teaching skills.

Which were all about prioritising . . . as in yacht navigation and pilotage.