RYA - lost the plot?

[Simondjuk]

First of all " him" not "they". The culprit was the owner of the boat. The rest of us were guests.
I was off watch. The others were on deck and crowding the cockpit. He was not short of hands.
I do not fraternise with morons. I am very choosy as to who I fraternise with.

Indeed so, but I'm afraid that the air of superiority is rather wasted. It was simply that as I typed on a phone on which it is awkward to scroll back and check, I couldn't recall if you had mentioned your friend's gender, hence I settled for 'they' rather than 'him'.

Despite having such grave doubts in your skippers abilities that you offered to relieve him of command, you elected not to place the assets of your superior knowledge and experience where, evidently, they were required and therefore were not on deck to offer guidance at one of the most challenging stages of the passage. Off watch or not, sufficient hands on deck or not, your lapse in judgement of the situation left you helpless to do anything but rush up on deck in vain when it was already too late.

In your own words, the collision and resultant 'disastrous' damage occurred because your friend 'approached the berth at full tilt and did not put his engine on astern to stop her'. Those are not the actions of any fully witted person in my book but, on the contrary, moronic. Even a child could have foreseen the inevitable outcome.

This is the story as you tell it in your own words, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It does not answer my question. My question relates to how you release it, not how you rig it.

Quick slash with a sharp knife?

 

[dom]

This thread has truly gone from the sublime to the ridiculous

 

[Simondjuk]

My guess is that VO5's first step when releasing a preventer is to ensure that all crew members' nails are adequately trimmed.

 

[VO5]

How you ease a loaded line lends it's self easier to demonstration than description.

If the line is back to the cockpit there shouldn't be a problem for any competent seaman.

I have been very specific in the wording of my question.

My question is not related to easing a loaded line. It refers to removing it.

 

[VO5]

Quick slash with a sharp knife?

No.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I have been very specific in the wording of my question.

My question is not related to easing a loaded line. It refers to removing it.

Ah, a loaded question, then.

 

[Simondjuk]

I have been very specific in the wording of my question.

My question is not related to easing a loaded line. It refers to removing it.

You haven't been specific at all. First you said 'release' now you say 'remove'. I and perhaps others would give a different answer depending on which wording you decide you actually intend to use, specifically.

 

[VO5]

Indeed so, but I'm afraid that the air of superiority is rather wasted. It was simply that as I typed on a phone on which it is awkward to scroll back and check, I couldn't recall if you had mentioned your friend's gender, hence I settled for 'they' rather than 'him'.

Despite having such grave doubts in your skippers abilities that you offered to relieve him of command, you elected not to place the assets of your superior knowledge and experience where, evidently, they were required and therefore were not on deck to offer guidance at one of the most challenging stages of the passage. Off watch or not, sufficient hands on deck or not, your lapse in judgement of the situation left you helpless to do anything but rush up on deck in vain when it was already too late.

In your own words, the collision and resultant 'disastrous' damage occurred because your friend 'approached the berth at full tilt and did not put his engine on astern to stop her'. Those are not the actions of any fully witted person in my book but, on the contrary, moronic. Even a child could have foreseen the inevitable outcome.

This is the story as you tell it in your own words, nothing more and nothing less.

Ridiculous.

You think I should recount the incident in your own words instead, is that it ?

Well, I'll tell you.

As we were sailing in open water with excellent visibility and a gentle breeze all afternoon, I saw no reason to remain in the cockpit or at the chart table.

I decided to get my head down for 3 hours, because I was not so much interested in sunset but at the onset of nautical to astronomical twilight and gave instructions to be called at such time.

I stayed up all night supervising the night passage and attending to navigation and chartwork until dawn and helming the boat all the way myself.

When dawn broke I went down below for a rest, not to sleep, but to rest.

I then made myself breakfast. I remained below and popped up every 30 minutes. The coast became visible and the owner assured me he felt confident because this was his third trip to Bimini. So I left him on the wheel.

Two hours later the incident occurred.

I did not know at the time because the owner's reply was incomplete.

It was true that he had completed 3 trips to Bimini.

He omitted to tell me that on the three occasions he had engaged the services of a professional skipper.

This professional skipper had taken the boat to Bimini himself with my friend the owner and his family as passengers, not even crew.

On the occasion we set out for Bimini there was no mention of his previous arrangement, nor significantly of any intention to repeat the arrangement.

 

[sarabande]

I really don't like that second picture which Babylon posted.


Pulling a sheet/halyard/guy off a winch in that manner is guaranteed to generate at least one, possibly more, twisted crossing turns which will jam itself in a sheave or turning block as the line gallops away from the winch. The jam will be exacerbated by the urgency with which the line is required to run freely.


Been there, done it, got the rope burns. And it's not in any formal qualification syllabus except the curriculum of nautical common sense.

 

[VO5]

You haven't been specific at all. First you said 'release' now you say 'remove'. I and perhaps others would give a different answer depending on which wording you decide you actually intend to use, specifically.

Both apply.

 

[Simondjuk]

Ridiculous.

You think I should recount the incident in your own words instead, is that it ?

Well, I'll tell you.

As we were sailing in open water with excellent visibility and a gentle breeze all afternoon, I saw no reason to remain in the cockpit or at the chart table.

I decided to get my head down for 3 hours, because I was not so much interested in sunset but at the onset of nautical to astronomical twilight and gave instructions to be called at such time.

I stayed up all night supervising the night passage and attending to navigation and chartwork until dawn and helming the boat all the way myself.

When dawn broke I went down below for a rest, not to sleep, but to rest.

I then made myself breakfast. I remained below and popped up every 30 minutes. The coast became visible and the owner assured me he felt confident because this was his third trip to Bimini. So I left him on the wheel.

Two hours later the incident occurred.

I did not know at the time because the owner's reply was incomplete.

It was true that he had completed 3 trips to Bimini.

He omitted to tell me that on the three occasions he had engaged the services of a professional skipper.

This professional skipper had taken the boat to Bimini himself with my friend the owner and his family as passengers, not even crew.

On the occasion we set out for Bimini there was no mention of his previous arrangement, nor significantly of any intention to repeat the arrangement.

Why did you helm yourself for the entire night?

I'm also impressed that during your night-long solo vigil at the helm you managed all the chartwork and navigation... in the cockpit, in the dark, with one hand on the wheel. Kudos.

 

[VO5]

Ah, a loaded question, then.

Not a loaded question at all. A very specific and clear question.
But probably from your viewpoint "loaded".
Easy to understand your viewpoint as obviously you do not have the answer.
I am interested to see what John Morris will explain for the benefit of all of you and to my satisfaction.
And if he does not explain, I will then explain in detail.
But you have to be patient and give him a chance to reply. OK ?

 

[VO5]

Why did you helm yourself for the entire night?

I'm also impressed that during your night-long solo vigil at the helm you managed all the chartwork and navigation... in the cockpit, in the dark, with one hand on the wheel. Kudos.

Yes because I was able to alternate between hand steering and autopilot going to and fro to the chart table.

 

[Simondjuk]

Both apply.

Not on my boat they don't. Parts of the preventer are permanently rigged, so not removed while underway.

You actually have to be specific I'm afraid, not merely assume that you're being so.

 

[Simondjuk]

Yes because I was able to alternate between hand steering and autopilot.

You didn't helm 'all the way yourself' at all then. Why didn't anyone else steer though? That was the question.

 

[VO5]

Don't carry tallow, but vaseline works if you want to check the seabed. We tend to use it in "unlisted" anchorages.

Thanks for the tip. Very useful. Tallow is not always easy to obtain.

 

[VO5]

You didn't helm 'all the way yourself' at all then. Why didn't anyone else steer though? That was the question.

Because I took it upon myself to do the entire night passage because there were obstructions to be dealt with and dog legs to be made. And the vessel was ketch rigged.

None of the others had any significant watckeeping experience in night navigation is the reason.

Do you now c or not c ?

 

[VO5]

Not on my boat they don't. Parts of the preventer are permanently rigged, so not removed while underway.

You actually have to be specific I'm afraid, not merely assume that you're being so.

Just be patient and give John Morris the opportunity to reply.
The question is addressed to him specifically.
He is perfectly capable of understanding exactly what I mean.

 

[Simondjuk]

Because I took it upon myself to do the entire night passage because there were obstructions to be dealt with and dog legs to be made. And the vessel was ketch rigged.

None of the others had any significant watckeeping experience in night navigation is the reason.

Do you now c or not c ?

I do see. Not only was the skipper so lacking in acumen that he either considered ramming the dock at full speed to be a good idea or was unable to manipulate a simple engine control, but the rest of the crew were also so incompetent that they couldn't be trusted to steer the boat, even for short spells in benign conditions.

It doesn't sound so much like you supervised the night watch as were the sole functioning member of it. I hope that the others could at least make good coffee.