RYA Instructors. Are you covered?

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Let the *******s try it. Unless they have videoed me telling them to do exactly whatever stupid thing they have done I can't see a court listening to them - and I'll take my chances conducting my own defence against any smartarse lawyer that has less sailing experience than me.

Posts like this make me very annoyed.

- W
 
apward said:
very professional! I think you mean trainees, as you dont have enough *'s for customers.

Raw nerve?
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As far as I am aware all my students have been more than happy with the tuition and advice they have received, and I certainly have no reports of any of them having done anything stupid subsequently - though I am sure that some of them have, as have we all.

Not sure what point you are trying to make with the 'raw nerve' comment. Care to elaborate?

You asked:
Perhaps you don't need to be covered for this risk? I'd be interested to hear RYA instructors views.
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My answer - I wouldn't have thought this type of cover was necessary unless you were both useless as an instructor and stupidly willing to admit it. In any event it would be the school that was sued by the malodourous litigant, not the individual instructor. I can't in any event imagine any such claim being received favourably in a British court. Do you have any examples?


- W
 
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apward said:
Yep. I have a reason to buy in the services of professional instructors. And like professionals in other fields, I assumed they would have protection against this risk. Seems not.
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As an instructor working for a sailing school I would expect my employer to have cover for this sort of risk if they think it is required. It is you who - the school - that will be sued first, not the instructor. As an occasional freelance instructor myself I would not dream of paying for this type of insurance.


- W
 
This is an interesting thread... well my thoughts on this are as follows:
If you are an instructor working for a sailing school or Charter Company and you are 'on the books' and by that I mean employed by them (PAYE) then you would be covered under their company insurance (or should be...check...!).
If you are a freelance instructor and self employed you would be a 'contractor' and should have your own public liability insurance/business insurance just like a plumber or an electrician would have. That said most if not all sailing schools have insurance policies that cover the professional skipper/instructor onboard if suitably qualified for the course/activity conducted whilst aboard their yacht, and that means what it says! If however an incident happens ashore, even on the pontoon resulting in damage to property or persons then it would be unlikely that this would be covered under the yacht's insurance.
Marinas and public places would not be liable unless it were deemed/proven that the premises were at fault. If under instruction or guidence of the skipper/instructor negligence did occur resulting to damage or injury then it would be more than likely that the person or persons responsible would be liable.
I would advise and recommend to anyone conducting 'freelance' skippering/instructing activities aboard to have their own insurance.
I have known cases where skippers/instructors have been ‘left out in the cold’ when the employers insurance companies have ‘walked away’ from the case and the skipper has been left to pick up the pieces.
It would not be unreasonable either for a sailing school or Chater Company to persue an individual for negligence if damage or injury was to occure aboard their yacht…be warned and be careful…!
 
If under instruction or guidence of the skipper/instructor
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Just to get the thread back onto subject, the original question is about when the customers have left, no longer under instruction and are applying a technique taught during the course.
I think most people on here would agree about liabilities/negligence whilst undertaking a course.
It's also possible the tuition wasn't part of a course and no sailing school was involved. It could have been own boat tuition. Now if the sailing school had laid on the instructor to do own boat tuition again the sailing school would be too far removed to get sued. One deciding factor may be on how the instructor was paid. If the instructor was paid directly by the client and not through the school then absolutely no risk for the school whatsoever.
 
webcraft said:
As far as I am aware all my students have been more than happy with the tuition and advice they have received - W
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I'm not suggesting this applies to you but not all instructors get the real feedback.
I was subcontracting for another school when I was asked to go to another boat and investigate.
One of the customers had cited 'family illness at home' and had to get off the boat.
The instructor put him ashore and that was the end of his course.
Meanwhile the customer had been phoning the Sailing Schools owner complaining about the instructors shouting. When asked how the course was going he thought his pupils were really enjoying it. It was only going through step by step that he finally saw the error. That instructor hasn't worked for that school since and as a matter of policy the school now avoids employing "Cruising Instructors."
Other times I have been asked to step in when the course has been run over two weekends and the first weekend hasn't gone well. In these situations the sailing school will know there is a problem and may have an idea from the client what it is. However, the client may withhold some of the details out of fear/embarrassment/not wanting to create a fuss etc and so other than the instructor being asked not to come back he may never learn the true cause.
 
apward said:
Perhaps you don't need to be covered for this risk? I'd be interested to hear RYA instructors views.
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probably not but I've given up instructing anyway - the RYA have become such a box ticking money grubbing outfit that I'm not prepared to instruct any longer. I used to do it to "put something back" but now its all become commercial.
 
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The proposed scenario is simply ludicrous, as shown by an earlier poster.

'I wrecked my boat because I was doing X the the way instructor Y showed me'
'Did instructor Y wreck the boat when he demonstrated this?'
'Er . . . no'
'Then surely you could not have been doing it the way you were shown'

If the OP is worried about it then he should either ensure that the school's insurance policy covers this or insist that any instructor working for the school has such insurance in place. As an occasional freelance instructor I will continue to gamble that the world is not quite that mad yet rather than pay more money to insurance charlatans.

As a final observation, running a five day course demands people skills every bit as much as sailing skills. Instructors who are unaware of tension on the boat - or the reasons for such tension - to the extent described by Talulah above undoubtedly exist, but I imagine that by and large their failings soon become apparent to the school and they are not asked back. If you want to instruct then IMO good teaching and people skills seasoned with self-awareness and a dash of humility are in many ways more important than your absolute ability to handle a boat.

(Yes, I know - amazing isn't it considering my frequently abrasive posting manner on here . . . but this is the internet, not a boat. Hopefully most of you can tell the difference).


- W
 
SkipperJonB said:
I would advise and recommend to anyone conducting 'freelance' skippering/instructing activities aboard to have their own insurance.
But do you think this insurance should include cover against being sued at some future date because some idiot has done something stupid on another boat and now seeks to blame the instructor for poor/incorrect instruction given at a different time on a different boat? Surely that way lies madness - or at least a nice little earner for the insurance companies.

Are there any freelance instructors on here who do have their own insurance, who is it with, how much does it cost and what exactly does it cover?

The RYA website says:

Public liability insurance for RYA Instructors and Coaches is available from insurance brokers, Gallagher Heath. Please call Gallagher Heath on 01384 822279 for further details.
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Of more interest - does anyone know of a single claim against an instructor for the type of scenario envisaged by the OP ? If not, what else have instructors been successfully sued for?

- W
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webcraft said:
IAre there any freelance instructors on here who do have their own insurance, who is it with, how much does it cost and what exactly does it cover?
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I do and the company I do deliveries for quite rightly insist on it. It also covers instructing. I cannot believe any freelance instructor does not have at least 3rd party liability.

The insurance company is called fastnet and is approved by the RYA.

The cost depends on the number of days at sea. You will have to ask them yourself how much it costs.

I doubt it covers what the OP is on about but then I do not want it too. See my earlier post.
 
Cover for Instructors

When I was working commercially - up to 2009 - all members of The Scottish Yachtmaster Instructors Association were insured for all for such matters at a very reasonable cost. Insurence was also available throughthe RYA although more expensively.
 
A sailing school yacht is insured for the risk of training.

A Recognised Training Centre must be insured to cover all of its training activities.

An Instructor can seek personal indemnity for the princely sum of £55 a year.

The RYA are readily available to advise on this matter and know far more about it than I do.

Askem!!!!
 
capnsensible said:
A sailing school yacht is insured for the risk of training.

A Recognised Training Centre must be insured to cover all of its training activities.

An Instructor can seek personal indemnity for the princely sum of £55 a year.

The RYA are readily available to advise on this matter and know far more about it than I do.

Askem!!!!
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£55 a year seems reasonable - does it cover nutters trying to sue you years later after they wreck a yacht doing it 'your way'??

- W
 
webcraft said:
£55 a year seems reasonable - does it cover nutters trying to sue you years later after they wreck a yacht doing it 'your way'??
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Why would it when it aint goin to happen. Stop trolling and find out for yourself if you really care.
 
webcraft said:
Eh? I am not trolling, this is precisely the hypothetical situation the OP referred to.
Oh, and I was asking Captain S, not you.
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Maybe you should send a PM if you don't want anyone else to answer a question regarding something that on all probability isn't going to happen. But you have lots of form for that sort of thing:D
 
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