rya day skipper qualification

[ndc333]

hi, im totally confused by the rya structure. I want to get to day skipper and then get the ICC. I understand i need to do the competent crew first. But after that:
- do i need to do a theory test before or after the practical? (or is it assessed during the practical?)
- do i need to join the rya?
- do i simply get the qualification at the end of the 5 day course?

i should say that im happy to study the theory by myself in my own time.
if anyone has any recommendations for schools in spain, portugal or the canaries that would be helpful.

 

[Hacker]

You don’t need CC but you need the minimum experience (which the CC provides). Again you don’t need the practical but you need to be able to demonstrate the required theoretical knowledge (e.g. being able to plan and plot courses) during the practical course. You don’t need to join the RYA but the ICC would be (inesence) free if you did otherwise the RYA will charge for it. You get the qualification at the end IF the instructor believes you have met the competences.

 

[Aurai]

Hi, very easy to go through far too many options or choices, but answering your immediate questions.

The Theory Part is a pre-requisite for the Practical 5 Day Course.

No need to join tne RYA, except that is one route to get your ICC

Not many people at this level go "backwards" to do Comp Crew, but it does cover useful stuff.

 

[ndc333]

OK so in principal i study, do CC then day skipper, i am handed the qualification at end of it - if all good, then join rya and get the ICC for free. You say "Not many people at this level go "backwards"". If i know the theory very well, is the CC mostly going to be a waste of time/boring? i.e. could i either skip the CC entirely or perhaps do one of the 3 day courses?

 

[prv]

Is it specifically the ICC that you need, perhaps for chartering? Because if so, Day Skipper is not a prerequisite for that. Day Skipper is simply one of a long list of qualifications which are accepted as proof that you can control a boat and hence needn't pass a test for the ICC.

If you can already sail at a fairly basic level, you can simply do the ICC test directly. The syllabus is not complicated, the essence of the practical test is to depart from a pontoon, motor up to a buoy and a simulated person in the water, hoist sails and sail in three different directions, then motor back to the pontoon and tie up. My parents did it a few years back since they like to charter but never did the RYA stuff, I think it took about half a day for the whole thing.

Pete

 

[prv]

The Theory Part is a pre-requisite for the Practical 5 Day Course.

Is it? I know I never did the theory but did do the practical, nobody ever mentioned it. Maybe that training centre was just a bit sloppy on such details.

EDIT: I've just checked the RYA syllabus and they say

Assumed knowledge: Theory to the level of Day Skipper. It is recommended you attend the Day Skipper shorebased course beforehand.

So no, the theory course is not a pre-requisite for the practical as long as you know the stuff it would have covered.

Pete

 

[macd]

ndc333: what is your principle aim? To get an ICC, or to get day skipper and incidentally qualify for an ICC?
The former can be acquired by a fairly basic test. The latter is rather more exhaustive and, perhaps, more fruitful and rewarding.

 

[awol]

Not sure that "qualification" is the correct nomenclature for Day Skipper. It is a course completion certificate presented on satisfactory completion of a practical course, requiring no previous preparatory course(s), though one may be advisable, just 100nm and 5 days including 4 hours in the dark on a yacht.
An ICC can be gained simply by completing a practical assessment at an RYA training centre. The syllabus of the test is on the ICC application form. While Day Skipper or YM CofC give automatic satisfaction of the ICC requirements without further assessment they are not necessary.

 

[prv]

If i know the theory very well, is the CC mostly going to be a waste of time/boring?

They cover pretty much entirely different things.

Some would say that the essence of Comp Crew is "live on a boat for a week without hating it or annoying everyone else" . Of course that's not strictly true as you do learn quite a few specific skills, but just getting used to being on a boat and absorbing what sailing is about is a big part of it. The name is quite apt - someone who is competent crew might not be in a position to do much decision-making, but if you heave them a line and ask them to make it fast to that cleat, or ask them to sheet in a bit on the jib, then they should understand what you're asking and be able to to it.

The Day Skipper Theory course, on the other hand, is pretty much exclusively about making decisions, chiefly navigational ones about where you are, where you should go, will the tide allow it, what is the weather going to do and does the plan still make sense in light of it, and so on. You can ace a Shorebased course while being completely unable to sail a boat (a relative claims to have sailed with someone who fit that description perfectly at the Coastal level ) - and note also that there is no distinction between sail and power on shorebased courses because they are not about how to make the boat go.

Pete

 

[ndc333]

to give some clarification i am not a sailor, my dad had in the past a small sailor then a motor boat on a lake but i wasnt interested to learn so much at the time. Ive actually spent the last 20 years in the offshore industry studying met-ocean data and vessel motions etc so although not directly relevant to sailing, things like navigation etc are up my street. I have been overcome in the melower years of life to suddenly live on a sailboat and travel to distant shores!

so id just like to check sailing is for me, get reasonably competent and get the qualification (ICC or equivalent) required for some european countries ASAP. Id like to avoid the competent crew if its going to be utterly boring - pointing out what a halyard is etc. I can always hire a skipper etc later on my own boat for a few days or get experienced people to sail with me.

So should i skip the CC or not?

 

[lpdsn]

You can just take the ICC exam if you've the ability to pass it. No need for Day Skipper. It isn't a difficult exam at all. Get a boat off a pontoon, mess about a bit and get back onto it.

You can skip the Competent Crew course if you've a fair bit of crewing experience. If you haven't, do it you might learn something.

Similarly, you can skip the Day Skipper theory if you already have the right skills. However, there's a lot to learn during it and the practical covers other things.

If you just turn up for the Day Skipper Practical the instructor will have hours of fun trying to get a bit of knowledge into you from the CC and theory courses. You won't be the first by far to do that and you won't fail, hardly anybody ever does.

People do get DS Practical tickets without knowing a great deal. I've lost count of the number of Day Skippers I've met that can't really tie a bowline or attach fenders. And I once sent a Day Skipper mate who was crewing for me down to do some tidal calcs just to see if he got the same answer as me. Apparently there was just a meaningless table of numbers in the almanac.

Still, the more you learn on these courses the less of a problem it'll be when you're out there on your own. The sea turns a deaf ear when you tell it you've got a ticket.

 

[IanR]

Since a Day Skipper practical can be commercially endorsed, I would never consider it a course completion certificate.
You do need to have a reasonable level of theory or do the DS theory which covers the necessary to ensure that when you do cover the practical that it is enjoyable and you continue to develop.

I endeavour to get all the crew doing passage planning for real and pilotage as well as necessary skippering skills so I would be very surprised if anyone considers it a waste of time and a nice way to learn some essential and elegant techniques.

If you want a tick box exercise then you could miss the point, the comp crew is to allow you to contribute as a good crew member to support the skipper and to be a valued team player and be asked back!

It's a fun exercise

 

[ndc333]

so to answer my intentions - to see if i like living on a boat, get some experience and get a qualification accepted by the greeks/italians etc. My mayor question has been answered - when the 'qualification' is issued, that i can study the theory myself ; and it seems the system has some slack - if i choose to do the CC or not before day skipper practical.

Now i just need to find a school for this time of year - i was going to go with blue oyster in Barcelona until i read some horrific reviews.

 

[STOL71]

Now i just need to find a school for this time of year - i was going to go with blue oyster in Barcelona until i read some horrific reviews.

I am sure the Med is a great place to learn to sail, but it may be a good idea to do the days skipper in tidal waters so that you get that endorsement in case you ever wanted to charter a boat in the Canaries or the Carribean.

 

[prv]

I am sure the Med is a great place to learn to sail, but it may be a good idea to do the days skipper in tidal waters so that you get that endorsement in case you ever wanted to charter a boat in the Canaries or the Carribean.

I believe the RYA recently dropped the tidal/non-tidal distinction, so the paperwork consideration no longer applies. Of course if he wants to sail the world it makes sense to learn about tides, but it won't affect where he can and can't charter.

Pete

 

[STOL71]

I believe the RYA recently dropped the tidal/non-tidal distinction, so the paperwork consideration no longer applies. Of course if he wants to sail the world it makes sense to learn about tides, but it won't affect where he can and can't charter.
Pete

Wasn't aware, but as you say, knowing about tides doesn't do harm.

If I could give the OP a piece of unsolicited advice: learn how to sail on a small boat, preferably a dinghy, then do some crewing on yachts at a club, then do the day skipper (theory and practical) and then charter or buy a boat.

 

[lpdsn]

and it seems the system has some slack - if i choose to do the CC or not before day skipper practical.

The only place there is really slack in the system is that if you're mathematically able and willing to do a bit of work at home on the ColRegs you could skip the DS Theory and go straight to the YM Theory.

The scheme allows you to skip bits if you've built up equivalent experience elsewhere. As I said before, you'll pass the DS Practical even if you don't have the equivalent experience for CC, as almost everyone does pass. The problems come afterwards.

You'll find it difficult at times as skipper if you can't even show your novice crew how to do basic tasks. Similarly, if you're spending 15 minutes to do some navigation task that others can do in one it gives your novice crew a lot longer to get into an awkward situation that you have to get out of.

I'd say, do the full courses and aim to learn as much as you can rather than just getting the ticket. It'll save you money and hassle in the long run.

 

[Tranona]

Wasn't aware, but as you say, knowing about tides doesn't do harm.

If I could give the OP a piece of unsolicited advice: learn how to sail on a small boat, preferably a dinghy, then do some crewing on yachts at a club, then do the day skipper (theory and practical) and then charter or buy a boat.

Knowing about tides is compulsory for Day Skipper, even if you intend sailing in non tidal areas of the world

While what you say about learning in a small boat may be appropriate for some it is neither necessary, nor indeed desirable for everybody. The OP is a mature person who intends buying a 40' boat to cruise and live on in the Med, so is unlikely ever to sail a small boat. He can learn everything he needs to know about how to make the boat go on a typical sailing school boat which is not dissimilar to the type of boat he intends buying. Indeed if he does it in the Med, Spain, Portugal, Canaries etc he will learn skills that he may not get a chance to in the UK, but which will be appropriate for when he gets his own boat. Much better use of his time than learning in a dinghy.

 

[awol]

Since a Day Skipper practical can be commercially endorsed, I would never consider it a course completion certificate.

I understand that to be a commercially endorsed Day Skipper successful completion of both the shore-based and practical courses is required. Even the RYA refer to the DS as a "course completion certificate".

 

[prv]

Since a Day Skipper practical can be commercially endorsed, I would never consider it a course completion certificate.

You can commercially endorse a PB2 too, which is probably more common than Day Skipper as there are more potential commercial uses for the short-range RIB driving it allows. Having recently done one (and may well get it commercially endorsed since I've picked up all the other required bits along the way anyway), a course completion certificate is a pretty accurate description. No formal assessment, just two short days on the water (in my case mostly unlearning how yachts manoeuvre ) and confirmation from the instructor that we'd met the required standard.

Pete