RYA - Colregs (no anchors)

The Colregs do address strobes. Rule 36 says an intermittent or flashing light such as a strobe light should be avoided for attracting the attention of another vessel.
I believe this is to avoid confusion with navigational marks.
 
The other evening I was watching a plane and thought about how visible the strobes lights were and why they are not on yachts. Then I thought that colregs lights usually tells you something rather than just "there's a light". So what would they replace? Too bright to be in addition to normal lights.

Perhaps offshore they might indicate "I'm a little boat with a big light so you can see me so steer clear" . Perhaps lower brightness coloured strobes?

The answer to being seen is probably just brighter lights.
 
I've been advocating this for years, and doing it. Lots of 'Pooh - pooh' and peeps pointing to that unhelpful bit in the ColRegs. The IRPCS were written by representatives of big shipping, for big shipping, within the London-based IMO. They have little interest in smallcraft problems.

It's my carefully-considered view that it is far better for me to be seen and avoided, due to my switching on a strobe 'anti-collision' light when a risk of collision develops ( and switching it off again afterwards ), than be not seen and run down. A masthead strobe is a lot more effective in catching the eye of a watchkeeper than a torch, whether played on the sails or otherwise.

In the USA, many smallcraft have anti-collision lights fitted, and are used when needed. So do almost all aircraft. Look up on a clear night, and consider how effective are aircraft 'anti-coll' lights as attention-getters......

We are at risk from poor commercial watchkeeping, whatever the reasons and excuses. We need to use available technology to protect ourselves, and those with us, from hazard. Bluntly, the notion that a masthead strobe, switched on for maybe a minute, will be confused with a seamark does not convince. In any event, it will be avoided.

I will continue to carry and use a strobe.



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Ask your insurance company what they think of strobe anchor lights. If you don't need the money or if you're self-insured, fine. Do keep in mind though that you might have to pay for damage done to the other boat too.
 
Sorry, we're NOT talking about anchoring...
In that case yes, strobe might be a pretty good way to attract attention. Would still use the nav lights however!
 
I agree your approach, Bilbo. And, in fact, the email quoted in the RYA magazine was asking if the use of strobes could be reviewed or commented on.

Colregs do, in fact, specifically exclude the use of strobes except for certain close quarter fishing situations and air cushion vehicles. The published reply by Ken Kershaw, RYA Technical Manager, was, in full:

[ QUOTE ]
Like LEDS, there is currently no industry standard for strobe lights and the Colregs do not cover these. Just imagine what a dogs dinner would result if these became commonplace; highly confusing flashing lights all over our waters! It is for these reasons that the RYA does not currently subscribe to the use of strobe lights.

[/ QUOTE ] So:

1. Error of fact. Colregs do cover strobes.
2. Matter of practice. Fast ferries use strobes in the Solent.
3. Matter of urgency. Small vessels need to be more visible.
4. Current methods. Fireworks/Bright lamps are flashed as attention getters (and do they have 'industry standards'?)
5. Large vessels are usually covered in lights of all sorts, which are sometimes confusing.

So, why are strobes specifically forbidden? I don't buy the 'confusing' argument. Especially if strobes are used only in situations where visibility becomes very important. Then they are just a substitute for digging out the white flare, which blinds all who use it . . .
 
Imagine you and I are near a shipping lane. You decide to show your strobe. I get in a panic because I don't know what you are or what I should do about you. I try to avoid you by mixing it with the shipping.

The consequence of your personal (known only to you) lighting system, is to increase risk to all those in the vicinity. Please stick to the Internationally agreed system.
 
How many hovercraft do we see compared to leisure craft? Not many so why can't we adopt a flashing orange strobe and give hovercraft something else. After all - indicators on cars flash to make them stand out....
 
HELLO RYA! Have any of you actually been to sea lately?

Try appraching Felixstow from the Southeast - "the sea" is ALREADY covered in lots of flashing lights - yes it is confusing - but they are visible - so exaclty whats your point?

If fitting a big flashy light thing to top of the boat helps it be noticed then let's all have one! If you find the prospect to confusing stay in your office!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Imagine you and I are near a shipping lane. You decide to show your strobe. I get in a panic because I don't know what you are or what I should do about you. I try to avoid you by mixing it with the shipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice example of Darwinian selection!

In about 1986 I saw my first LED flashing cycle rear light in St Louis. I bought several and happily used them in the UK. The RTAs prescribed filament bulbs and proscribed flashing - lots of cyclists used the (illegal) flashing LEDs - they are now legal.

Aquasignal do a nice tricolour, anchor and white strobe - though a bit pricey.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I get in a panic

[/ QUOTE ]

"Don't panic, Mister Mainwaring! They don't like it up 'em!"


Dads.jpg



Are you really likely to panic if you see a flashy-strobey light you don't immediately understand? Hmmmm.......


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ps Just for a smile.....DadsArmyTune

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I can understand where Bilbo is coming from, in his use and deployment of a strobe light.
However not everyone will be so careful in their control. Take, for example, the entrance to Portsmouth on a sunday evening, we have yachts coming in with tricolours and lower nav lights on.
If that were extended to all craft having strobe lights it may well turn it all into a real pigs breakfast.

I don't think I shall be having one fitted.
 
I believe that, providing the proper nav lights are visible, a flashing light is not illegal. Strobes at 1 flash per second should be avoided.
Surely this is better than to rely on a ferry seeing a 10 W stern light on a small yacht when doing 22 kts.
Come to that why don't the ferries have headlights so that they can see whats in front and we can see them coming.
 
I worry that you cannot imagine being in anothers shoes.

You know what your strange lights mean - so therefore everyone else should guess correctly - easy innit?

Would you be happy trying to guess the meaning of my unorthodox system?
 
The milspec pocket strobe light I have carried since 1976, and used twice in need, is an early ACR Firefly. Once, many years ago, it helped a lifeboat find us in very big seas and poor viz. On another, more recent occasion, it chased off a Spanish Box trawler ( NOT engaged in fishing ) that was about to run us down. On each occasion, it was used to supplement the normal lights - which weren't achieving the desired effect - for less than a minute.

On two occasions I've considered a white flare. On the first, the thing was stowed just inside the companionway - and it crumbled into pieces when I lifted it from its stowage. On the second occasion, when I took over the first night watch on a Fastnet boat, I asked the owner/skipper, turning in, where the white flares were stowed. He told me bluntly that I would have no need of anything like that, and I found there were none on board - contrary to the Special Regulations and the scrutineering.

"It's my sorry ass", as they say in the movies, and it's down to me to protect it. I justify to myself my occasional supplementing Part C of the ColRegs under Rule 2a - Responsibility - "Nothing in these Rules....or by the special circumstances of the case" and Rule 17b - Action By Stand-On Vessel - "....she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision."

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[ QUOTE ]
You decide to show your strobe. I get in a panic because I don't know what you are or what I should do about you. I try to avoid you by mixing it with the shipping.

[/ QUOTE ] If you really think this is how you will react then I suggest you restrict yourself to daylight sailing. You will see a lot of strange hard to identify lights when sailing at night and need to keep a cool head.
 
[ QUOTE ]
HELLO RYA! Have any of you actually been to sea lately?

Try appraching Felixstow from the Southeast - "the sea" is ALREADY covered in lots of flashing lights - yes it is confusing - but they are visible - so exaclty whats your point?

If fitting a big flashy light thing to top of the boat helps it be noticed then let's all have one! If you find the prospect to confusing stay in your office!

[/ QUOTE ]The people I know at the RYA spend a lot of time at sea - possibly more than many people on this forum so there's no need to be rude.

Also, with respect, the reason I don't use a strobe is so that I am not confused with one of those many navigational marks with the flashy lights that you refer to.

Its the main reason why strobe lights are not generally allowed for shipping.

And to answer another post, small ships/ pleasure craft WERE thought about when the IRPCS were developed. Lots of big ship drivers also sail small craft for pleasure.

Finally, USA was cited as an area where strobe lights are common. To my knowledge, strobe lights are only legal on the lakes.

My experience of sailing in US waters is that their bouyage lighting is abysmal. I remember sailing down the Deleware at night and EVERY port hand mark had the same light characteristic. If you lost count of where you were, you had to go over to the bouy and look at the number on it to check your progress. Unique light characteristics of bouyage seems to have passed our US cousins by. I am not sure that their take on lights is one that I would want to copy.

Whilst I sympathise with bilbo's use of a strobe as an occasional device to warn other shipping, I very much hope that the sea is not filled with small crafts fitted with strobes flashing away all the time. It would be a retrograde step.

Fit proper lights and keep a lookout. Follow the IRPCS and you won't go wrong.
 
I am a bit surprised by the level of complacency demonstrated here. Implying that the Grown-Ups like the RYA and Imco and the like are looking after things and the small boat children have nothing to worry about if they just follow the rules.

This is most certainly not the case. The Ouzo catastrophe demonstrates that the Nautical Establishment has let us down.

The recommendations on the subject of radar reflectors are a good case in point. Totally inconclusive. Useless equipment yet still mandatory to fit.

And do we really believe that the characteristics of a strobe light can be easily confused with those of a flashing nav. light?

All muddled thinking and entrenched positions. I do not honestly believe that anyone in the Establishment is currently thinking how the safety of folks like us can be significantly improved. In particular I see no original thought or leadership coming from the RYA, and I do not believe that the RYA makes much of an effort to seek the views of the membership in these matters (weather forecast arrangements are another case in point).

In the general scheme of things the small boat sailor is looked upon as a bit of a hinderance to the proper use of the sea which concerns large ships and profit.

In the absence of strong leadership we are left to our own devices, and I have total sympathy with those who advocate fitment of strobes.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am a bit surprised by the level of complacency demonstrated here. Implying that the Grown-Ups like the RYA and Imco and the like are looking after things and the small boat children have nothing to worry about if they just follow the rules.

This is most certainly not the case. The Ouzo catastrophe demonstrates that the Nautical Establishment has let us down.

The recommendations on the subject of radar reflectors are a good case in point. Totally inconclusive. Useless equipment yet still mandatory to fit.

And do we really believe that the characteristics of a strobe light can be easily confused with those of a flashing nav. light?

All muddled thinking and entrenched positions. I do not honestly believe that anyone in the Establishment is currently thinking how the safety of folks like us can be significantly improved. In particular I see no original thought or leadership coming from the RYA, and I do not believe that the RYA makes much of an effort to seek the views of the membership in these matters (weather forecast arrangements are another case in point).

In the general scheme of things the small boat sailor is looked upon as a bit of a hinderance to the proper use of the sea which concerns large ships and profit.

In the absence of strong leadership we are left to our own devices, and I have total sympathy with those who advocate fitment of strobes.

[/ QUOTE ]Are we speaking the same language? What complacency? I do not represent the RYA, but I do know some of the hierarchy. It seems to me that your argument could be restated as 'I don't agree with what the RYA is doing/saying, therefore I will criticise them.'

How can the Ouzou disaster show that the establishment has let us down. A huge amount of effort has gone into finding and prosecuting the offender. Your comment is a cheap shot and unworthy of any other comment.

There is NO evidence that having a radar reflector is 'useless'. Some radar reflectors are useless, but a good one whilst not guaranteeing a reflection on the a ships radar gives you a much better chance of being seen than not having one at all. Seagoing professionals take the needs of small craft very seriously.

And some flashing strobes can easily be mistaken for a N Cardinal. I am tempted to ask if you have ever sailed in bad weather and poor visibility, but I would be reducing my argument to your level of criticism of the authorities.

Leisure craft have their right to be on the oggin along with commercial shipping. With that right comes the responsibility of playing by the rules. Such an attitude is not an entrenched position - it is a responsible one.

By the way, it is the same entrenched RYA that is calling for a review of the light regulations so that there are standards for LED lights to be used as Nav lights. An eminently sensible appeal as there are some ropey lights being sold that do not meet the required standards of visibility and colour.
 
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