RYA and red diesel (On my high horse)

[bedouin]

I tend to agree with your feelings.

I am happy with the RYA's response, not because I actually care much about the duty on diesel myself, but for once again they are standing up for the interests of leisure boaters.

While we all have a responsibility towards the environment it is not the responsibility of the RYA to champion those concerns. The sad fact is that all forms of boating are environmentally damaging and so anyone who regards it as paramount to avoid any impact on the environment will have to give up boating as a hobby.



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[ParaHandy]

after 9/11 the virtual, but temporary, cessation of flying in the USA led to a marked change in upper atmosphere temperature such is the inefficiency of jet engines ...

I presume that fishing boats are not exempt? If so and although we may not have much of an industry left this is another nail in their coffin. there is also a thriving boat building industry in the uk which may suffer ...

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[Twister_Ken]

Car BMW 520 now 8 yrs old. The gizmo tells me it does approx 34 mpg. Annual mileage less than 5000.

Boat is 28 feet long and 8 feet wide, so used less materials than many. New 10 hp diesel which seems to use considerably less thah 1 litre ph. Disposed of? Twisters don't die!

All vegetable waste at home is composted. All recyclable materials (inc plastic) are recycled either through kerbside collection or at the civic amenity site which is less than a mile away. When I worked from an office I cycled there. Now I work from home so my travel is very much reduced.

I also polish my halo using biodegradebale products.

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[Twister_Ken]

they are standing up for the interests of leisure boaters

Well, I guess there is an argument that says global warming is in the interests of leisure sailors. More wind, more water.

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[Twister_Ken]

I fly when I must (which is not very often because my life's not organised that way). One trip to Dublin last year. One trip to Turin so far this year, and a trip to Prague booked. Eurostar is good for bits of N. Europe. It really hacks me off that jet fuel is not more heavily taxed - aircraft are very dirty environmentally.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

TAX COWS NOW!

I shall be writing to the RYA and my local MP (and maybe that Julie Kirkbride MP as well to ask for a signed photo) in order to point out that the average cow produces 102,200 litres of greenhouse gases, mainly methane, every year and this far exceeds the annual amount produced by my diesel guzzling power boat despite its heroic 0.7mpg fuel consumption. Furthermore, in some countries eg New Zealand and Australia, dairy livestock are the single largest contributor to that country's greenhouse gas emissions.
This is a disgraceful situation that must be addressed immediately and I shall be campaigning for a new 'green' tax on the grass which these filthy animals consume in order to produce this disgusting quantity of greenhouse gas emissions. I shall also be vigorously urging the RYA to ban cows from owning, skippering or crewing any kind of boat in order that at sea at least, we may breathe clean fresh air as God intended to be

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Oooh, a not very eco-friendly petrol gorging 6 cylinder engine and 34mpg, no way, more like 24mpg. Try the new BMW 2 litre diesel engine, much more eco aware and more than 40mpg if you're light footed
Halo definitely slipping now. Lentil fancying credentials not proven, I'm afraid

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[jimi]

Volvo V70 2.5litre diesel does 42mpg and I'm not light footed!

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[bedouin]

No - you misunderstand my point.

How much would your annual consumption of diesel change if the price were to increase to the same levels we pay on the road? If the answer is not much, then you are demonstrating that as a method of reducing environmental impact it would not be successful.

No - the truth about politics these days is that it is dominated by special-interest groups who are lobbying for their own particular interest. I don't think it is the job of the RYA to provide a balanced voice, but rather to contradict the more extreme assertions of pressure groups.

RYA have been rightly criticised in the past for not standing up for the interests of their members (e.g. over the RCD and the proposed container terminal near Southampton).

The issue of tax on red diesel is a tricky one. I can see good reasons to do so, but it important that whatever basis for tax we use is fair and transparent. After all that tax on road fuel is (or was) to fund the roads, and I don't sail on the roads. So non-road users (e.g. farmers, heating houses, diesel for generators, boats) should not pay on that basis.

If they want to change the basis on which the tax is collected - e.g. to introduce a genuine tax on the use of fossil fuels, then that needs to be done across the board and the same standard used for all.

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[Twister_Ken]

You mean the BMW computer is lying? Maybe the software is from Microsoft..

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[jimi]

Think part of the connfusion is the perception of tax on road fuel as subsidising roads in some sort of way. Be quite clear it is not. It is a general tax on a commodity with price inelasticity of demand that the govt can justify taxing heavily on environmental grounds. Like tax on tobacco and alcohol. It is just a way of government maximising their tax take.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

I had a 520i a few years ago and mid 20's mpg was the average mpg. Maybe you drive like an old woman?

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[jimi]

She does .. .. goes with Twister terrotory really.

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[SlowlyButSurely]

I heard John Humphries interviewing some chap from the Green Party last year who was banging on about the dangers of global warming and how if things don't change the south of England will have a mediterranean climate in 50 years time. "What's wrong with that then?" says John. The Green Party man was completely stumped!

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[bedouin]

But that is exactly what is it for (or at least the original justification). Hence the fact that it is only applied to fuel used by road-going vehicles. However I agree that these days the government use it just as a general source of taxation.

If they want to change the basis of the taxation to cover all users then that should be done across the board.

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[jimi]

Actually think that was the original justification for the road fund licence .. which is now also just part of general taxation .. its like saying the tax raised on whisky is used to build more distilleries ..

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[Peppermint]

Re:Laudable But!

The CO2 from powercraft is a drop in the atmosphere.

I agree that upping the taxation might force engine manufacturers into reducing emissions but it's still not a great cause.

I'd have thought a days traffic at Heathrow would dirty the place up more than all of the UKs powerboats put together.

Europe has got on with tackling the reduction of greenhouse gasses. Compared to much of the rest of the world, many of whom haven't reached their smoggy best yet, our industries are being forced to clean up. Thats one reason manufacturings gone to China. Sure their labours cheap but waste disposal has become a major cost to industry so why not move production to somewhere that doesn't give a toss.

The RYA's position is political. They are trying to please the perceived majority.

Most yotties I know wheren't drawn to sail by any green motivation.

Most of the steps to reduce polution targeted at the man in the marina are just paying lip service to improvement. The real improvements need to be made on an industrial scale and if we can't convince the third world that the industrial revolution was crap and they don't need a fridge or a car, we really are standing in the path of a charging rhino with a pop gun.

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[maxi]

Having yesterday, spent two hours stationary in traffic, surrounded by smoke belching diesel guzzling HGV's, on a journey that normally only takes two hours, I am absolutuely sure that this causes more harmful effects hour by hour and day by day than any number of boats, motor or sail.

I see the red diesel tax situation, as having little relevance to environmental issues compared to other areas of worse pollution that are largely unaddressed, and much more a cynical attack to screw the last ha'penny of tax out of us all.

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[robp]

What bugs me every time, is that "European harmonisation" in our case, always results in much higher costs here than most of the rest of it! It should be resisted on that basis alone.

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[Nauti Fox]

As a mobo user if I cannot enjoy the use of my boat I will take up another activity.I will accept a loss on my boat,because if I can't afford to use it I see no purpose in owning it.The marina I'm at is virtually all mobo's as it dries during springs and several others are above bridges that prevent yachts reaching them.If there is a mass exodus from these marinas lots of people will find themselves unemployed,at other marinas will the loss of mobos increase costs?There will be fewer completing voyages to other places,reducing their income and will diesel be so readily available as it is now,and what price will it be,maintaining installations for a small turnover.You can see what I'm getting at, chandlers etc. It really does concern me that this will be an absolute disaster for the marine leisure industry.
I hope I'm wrong.
Al.

<hr width=100% size=1>No dear,the water goes in the other one.