RYA affiliated Yacht Club, rolls and responsibilities of the Committee
- Thread starter Westcoaster
- Start date
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is a good summary. When things are going well members are quite happy to leave it all to the willing small number prepared to take on the job. Even when the club is big enough to have a professional management the committee still had the responsibility. The "democracy" bit is misleading. our club has about 1700 members but even when there sre special GMs for major issues that might involve literally £millions less than 400 turn up (no postal votes) and meetings are dominated by a vocal few (usually against the committee)
In many ways rather like businesses it is usually better to have a "leader" with vision making the big decisions or at least a small group who work together and can convince the membership to leave it to them. Management by member consensus is a path to either indecision or poor decisions.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I broadly agree with you, but having minuted meetings by no means requires or implies management by member consensus.
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
I learned to sail with Phoenix yacht club, which owns two boats on a coop type basis. They have one cruiser and one cruiser-racer and the year I joined they had recently replaced the cruiser-racer - I think it was a Contessa 32, or something of that era, and they replaced it with an X-Yachts (maybe 5 years old? i,e, 2010's model).
I was mates with one of the committee members, who's also an RYA instructor with the club, and he said he'd never be involved with it again. The plan was to replace the other boat after a few years, and he said they can find someone else to do it. Everybody had an opinion, everybody wanted to be involved; some suggestions (I can tell you with my own knowledge) were quite unsuitable. My friend told me they went to view one boat, I think it was in Denmark or somewhere (in the end they ended up buying a boat from another seller in the baltics) and as soon as they arrived they took one look at the boat and realised it was unsuitable, for some reason that had not been stated in the advert. Taking 2 or 3 people to inspect that boat must've cost then £500 or £1000 in flights and accommodation. Everyone's happy with the boat they ended up with, but you can imagine people moaning about "the committee taking holidays wasting our money".
ylop
Well-Known Member
There is no suggestion there are no minutes, simply that the minutes are not available for wide consumption.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
The tone of this implies being on a sailing club committee or being an officer implies some kind of desirable privilege.
IME it's quite the opposite, these are volunteer roles nobody really wants to do and most people need arm twisting to take the roles on. The people in the roles are frequently looking for a replacement for themselves so they can quit with a clear conscience.
I've known exceptions and I'm sure there are clubs where there is competition for all the flag/committee roles but I'm pretty sure they are exceptions.
(See also Parish Councils.)
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Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Indeed and in the one case such a person came forward IME within 4 years they had a) Turned their area of the club into a successful thriving hive of activity and energy and b) Walked away because they were fed up with the vocal minority moaning. To the significant detriment of the members, and me personally.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Let me clarify my point then -
Having minuted meetings, and published minutes, by no means requires or implies management by member consensus.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
We have all that and monthly financial "reports" plus regular "briefings" on future developments. Our club is rather different from the norm as it owns the land and buildings and effectively the marina. . Now coming up to 30 years old so showing its age which means a long term development plan with lots of noughts on the end. This sort of situation needs a strong lead as was the case over 30 years ago when the current facilities were built. Not easy getting members to both understand and accept what is needed.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I have known that type of scenario - there are a number of sailing and other clubs in that sort of situation.
My point is simply that having minuted meetings, and published minutes, is not at all incompatible with strong and imaginative leadership and dealing with sensitive or challenging situations.
Indeed, not having minutes or some similar method of conveying an outline of where things stand, and that issues of concern to the membership (whether that be of a sailing club or some other group) are acknowledged and are, or will be, addressed can itself undermine effective leadership. Not least because it undermines support for and confidence in the leadership, and gives malcontents free rein to spread whatever fantasies and conspiracy theories they might believe or concoct for nefarious reasons.
Of course, there's an art to drafting minutes that convey enough, and the right, information to give confidence without setting hares running!
I do believe there needs to be a space for a committee or other management to have confidential discussions of possibilities or other issues, but nothing about keeping minutes of formal meetings prevents committee members having such discussions before or after such formal meetings. The point of minutes is to give reassurance, and a formal record (the lack of which can come back and bite you), that things are being properly handled, that grievances and suggestions are acknowledged and suitably addressed.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Your Ina happy mood this morningRolls are usually the responsibility of the Catering Committee.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I think that’s the important point - minutes are not going to be read by 80% of people, often are impenetrable to people who aren’t close to the topics at hand - a summary of the big issues is far more helpful.
And volunteer committees may not have that skill set - or worse a minute secretary who has their own agenda!
Ah the secret meetings that aren’t minuted at all, where all the real decisions are made… no governance issues there.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Allocation of designated parking for Commador and secretary needto be addressed firsts off!
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
Why not designated parking for the whole committee as there is at the cone of the clubs, I am a member of.
In my case I have raised many issues about the club not complying with the legal rights of members to advance interests of the EXCO and or the club to the determent of the members
dunedin
Well-Known Member
So have you applied to become a member of the committee so you can make the improvements you deemed necessary?
Lots of folk criticise from the sidelines but aren't prepared to volunteer their own time to actually help.
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AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
I've never been on a yacht club committee, but I HAVE been on Parochial Church Councils from about 1975 to 2021, and have had many official positions on them, including Secretary and Churchwarden. The legislative framework is very different (for one thing, there is a legislative framework!), but I can see many similarities.
- First of all, published minutes are a very new thing. When I started, PCC minutes were kept by the Secretary in a book. Of necessity, all minutes were brief and by no means a verbatim record of discussions, as everything was recorded longhand in the secretary's best handwriting! It usually amounted to "There was discussion about X. Y and Z reported that.... P and Q were asked to take action" There was no possibility of making minutes public; there wasn't a mechanism. Until the 21st century, making minutes widely available was simply not a realistic possibility, except for large companies required to do so by legislation, and having a budget to produce glossy annual reports!
- PCCs are required to report to a public meeting once a year, giving a summary of their activities during the year. This might be a useful concept for all committees.
- All committees encounter matters that should NOT be made public, but which must still be minuted, if only to provide evidence that action has been taken. Pastoral matters mainly for a PCC, but matters that have commercial sensitivity are common. And pastoral matters may also impinge on yacht clubs; for example, matters to do with the club's duty of care for minors and safeguarding issues (which doesn't just mean children; it can also mean adults with special needs).
- Public meetings can easily get bogged down in minutiae. There's nearly always someone who will raise minor points and insist on them being discussed. It takes a VERY strong chair to avoid long and pointless discussions! I'm sure every organisation has that one person where everyone groans when said person stands up and says, "Chair, there's a small matter I'd like to raise...."
- In all meetings, a strong Chair is essential to avoid the meeting descending into inconsequential dribble!
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
I have but not the current cub. I was asked to represent another sailing club an the sporting federation EXCO
I started to raise issues of the sporting federation constitution, and I got shouted down and intimidated and this was uncalled for. I had complainants laid against, but the club EXCO took no action a I had been appointed by the exec.
The current club has laid complainants and tolt me to resign if I don't like he rules except I have no issued with the rules its that there is conflict between the code of conduct clause of the club constitution and the constitution of the country wth regard to the freedon of association.
I have raised issues with the legal rights of consumers that have been ignored by members of the EXCO and again have been intimidated by members of the club
I would resign and go somewhere else but there are facilities at the club that I wish to use that are no available at my other club.
The current club know that If I get legally discriminated against, I will take action.
The AGM that ia to take lace next weel will be different as I have evidence and supporters so hope things will change
ylop
Well-Known Member
roger's post is an example of why minutes are pretty pointless for the general audience! I'm sure he knows what he's referring to, but perhaps intentionally, he has provided just enough info to be intriguing but not enough to be useful!
The Q
Well-Known Member
As well as being ltd companies many sailing clubs are now registered charities. This brings in another whole raft of regulations, which includes proper governance.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
I can provide chapiter and verse but you need to know the background and it would bore you as it does ot pertain to the object of the forum and to UK anyway as our laws are different and as e have a very new democracy only 30 years since inception unlike UK which is many centuries.
Its really a micro-Cosom of what is going on in the world today
# kinds of people in the world
Those who make things happen
Those who watch things happen
Those who wonder what happened
On top of this are those who use their position to advantage their own position
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