Running Backstays

[Tinto]

Hi all
I am still looking for a boat and am looking at a Wauquiez Centurion. The rig is more complicated than a AWB with running back stays. Everyday is a school day.

how Are these used as they seem to prevent the boom moving across the beam.

the boat is rigged for using Solent’s as well as a genoa.

would be right in saying that the running backstays can moved to beside the mast when the Solent’s are not in use? That they are there to counteract the force put on the mast by the head of the Solent which is part way up the mast?

I need to understand how and when these are in use and not in use.

 

[Roberto]

In a Centurion the mast would probably stand up against storms even without standing rigging

 

[Roberto]

More seriously, the solent is likely an addition made during the life of the boat, if the attachment point is high enough there is no need for runners. On those rigs they were used just to limit the mast oscillations in a chop, nothing very structural.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

You say they prevent the boom moving across; in my understanding only the windward runner is deployed. During a tack the new windward runner is deployed and the old one dropped.

 

[Tintin]

And the cry "runner back, ready to tack"

 

[Buck Turgidson]

As stated above. Used with the solent and only the windward is tight. One more thing to do when tacking upwind but the solent is used to increase performance not reduce workload.

 

[lustyd]

Having sailed on a boat with running backstays I'd have to say don't buy a boat like that for cruising, just too much going on during tacks and gybes. The boat I sailed on eventually had the boom cut down so that when reefed the runners wouldn't need to be changed. When not reefed conditions are generally good enough that it's not an issue.

 

[Tinto]

You say they prevent the boom moving across; in my understanding only the windward runner is deployed. During a tack the new windward runner is deployed and the old one dropped.

Understood. but if you are tacking in a channel and so swapping the working runner back and forth as well as the usual tack manoeuvres then that’s a lot of extra work and coordination for two people.

 

[lustyd]

That was exactly my experience, and with two people you either have to ignore the gib sheets until the backstays are sorted or ensure the helm can do one of the ropes. We often had me release the gib sheet, then helm pulls in the new sheet while steering during which time I was swapping the backstays. For race crews that sort of thing is fine, but for cruising it's unnecessary work and complexity. Feels a bit scary in a gybe when there's less support from the stern too!

 

[geem]

Understood. but if you are tacking in a channel and so swapping the working runner back and forth as well as the usual tack manoeuvres then that’s a lot of extra work and coordination for two people.

Not necessarily. It depends how it's set up.
We have runners on both main and mizzen. We only need runners On the main when using the working jib on the inner furler. If we are going up wind then we are likely to have two reefs in the main with working jib. This means our runners can both be on. The main boom passes inside the angle of the runners and the reduced sail area is below the mast runner connection point.
You might find that in flat water the mast doesn't pump because it's a substantial mast so you may not need them but in a bumpy sea they will be needed.

 

[Tinto]

The boat has a couple of Solent’s and I think he used them when running downwind with the main in it’s bag.

if the running backstays are only required when using the Solent’s - which is my understanding as they prevent the solent from disturbing g the mast at it’s fixing point some distance from the top of the mast, then I am happy.

that means I can use the main and genoa, tack and gybe normally, with the running backstays doing nothing as there is no load point part way up the mast.

i do like a school day but only if I am understanding everything. So I hope that my understanding is correct.

 

[DoubleEnder]

Runners keep you on your toes. We sailed with them for 17 years, wooden rig. Kept the mast up! Though gybes could be a right laugh
Basically for us the helmsman handled the runners , on Highfield levers. Crew did headsail sheets. It was a small cockpit. Single handed I would often sail under headsail only…..

 

[geem]

The boat has a couple of Solent’s and I think he used them when running downwind with the main in it’s bag.

if the running backstays are only required when using the Solent’s - which is my understanding as they prevent the solent from disturbing g the mast at it’s fixing point some distance from the top of the mast, then I am happy.

that means I can use the main and genoa, tack and gybe normally, with the running backstays doing nothing as there is no load point part way up the mast.

i do like a school day but only if I am understanding everything. So I hope that my understanding is correct.

In my experience with a very similar set up to you they really aren't an issue. That mast will be a substantial construction. It's not like a racing boat where the mast is totally reliant on the runners. When we are bashing up wind in 2 to 3m seas we are really glad we have runners. The mast is stable. The pressure in the runners can be adjusted to keep the baby stay loaded. It's a good set up

 

[William_H]

So to sum up running back stays are a real pain if you do a lot of tacking. Not so much in wide open ocean. Really needs a dedicated crew to operate in tight tacking.
However in many rigs the runners are to improve performance by reducing fore stay sag. In some rigs they are only used or needed when using an inner lower forestay (solent). In some flimsy fractional rigs runners keep the mast up but in many cases the mast will be sufficiently robust to be safe with runners either removed or tied back for use only in storms. You might need to get lots of advice on the robustness of the particular mast and boat. Sounds from above like no problem. ol'will

 

[KompetentKrew]

Does it have a masthead gib as well as the solent?

My boat has a pair of running backstays for when the inner jib is in use, and a regular central backstay as part of the standing rigging.

I have only had the boat a couple of years, and have not yet used the running backstays - [edit: when not in use] they are clipped to keepers a little to the stern of midships. I was initially a bit intimidated by them, so have never used the inner job, but am probably confident enough to now do so.

To date I have always just reefed the gib by rolling it in.

 

[Tinto]

Does it have a masthead gib as well as the solent?

My boat has a pair of running backstays for when the inner jib is in use, and a regular central backstay as part of the standing rigging.

I have only had the boat a couple of years, and have not yet used the running backstays - they are clipped to keepers a little to the stern of midships. I was initially a bit intimidated by them, so have never used the inner job, but am probably confident enough to now do so.

To date I have always just reefed the gib by rolling it in.

Yes, that is exactly it. I am feeling confident about it now thanks to everyone’s contributions. I have also looked at some photos of the boat when close hauled and the boom is well within the running backstays so tacking can be done without having to touch them.

I omitted to say the mast is keel stepped

 

[lustyd]

The boom may be and so will be safe to just tack and gybe but the main won’t clear it at the top. This has the advantage of giving you time to deal with the stays but will cause chafe if done regularly. Not a deal breaker on a nice boat though if the boom is free to move.

 

[Tinto]

The boom may be and so will be safe to just tack and gybe but the main won’t clear it at the top. This has the advantage of giving you time to deal with the stays but will cause chafe if done regularly. Not a deal breaker on a nice boat though if the boom is free to move.

good point, but won’t the main always chafe on the lazy side?

 

[lustyd]

No, you generally tie them forwards to avoid chafe once you're done. This means there's a few minutes either side of a tack prepping too but it's no big deal. They usually have blocks on them so you don't want them loose in the cockpit at head height swinging around.

 

[jwilson]

An owner of a Centurion told me that he had removed the running backstays, as for normal cruising they were not needed. He had sailed for years without them. This is not a flimsy racing rig that relies on them. A survey on the boat agreed with this, but suggested that for long-distance or very heavy weather they might be useful.