Rudder full of water

[Avocet]

I've just hauled out for the winter and took my rudder home to scrape the antifouling off in the comfort of my garage. As I loaded it into the car I noticed a gurgling sound and I guess by the way the weight changes as the water runs from one end to the other there's a fair bit in there! It's off a traditional long keeler with the rudder hung on the stern post. There's a 1" stainless shaft going in at the top and another one poking out an inch or so at the bottom for it to pivot on. The rudder appears to be made in 2 halves round the shaft and bonded together. It may or may not be filled with foam. I'm guessing it's almost impossible to seal GRP to stainless for any length of time and I guess 35 years is too long to expect it to work. Should I just live with it or is there something I can do about it?

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[anderson]

this happend to me some years ago we drilled a hole in the bottom of the rudder to drain allthe water out, left it to dry out and then drilled a hole in the top of the rudder and filled the cavity with expanding poly foam from an airesol .can.

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[anderson]

this happend to me some years ago we drilled a hole in the bottom of the rudder to drain allthe water out, left it to dry out and then drilled a hole in the top of the rudder and filled the cavity with expanding poly foam from an airesol can untill it came out the top. hope it works for you. andy

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[Birdseye]

dont just leave it since there will be a metal framework inside, and even stainless steel will corrode if left in stagnant water.

drain it and then attempt to seal. personally, i would try epoxy, but you're the better judge since you know what it is built like.

what i wouldnt do is fill with foam since wet foam is just as bad as a water filled shell.

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[stretch33]

Had the same with my old Moody, did exactly same as the other poster, l drilled a series of holes along the bottom edge, a couple in the top then left it in the garage for a couple of months with a small heater under it, there was often a few drips coming out of it initially but eventually it dried up. Squirted some foam in then epoxied the holes. Put plenty of sikaflex at both ends where the stainless comes out. Have fun !

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[timevans2000]

Had the same problem last year when we lifted out.
I excavated the GRP around where the s/s shaft entered the rudder and reglassed with epoxy. We drilled a hole near the bottom and fitted a bronze plug. We can now leave the plug out in the winter when on the hard and inspect easily if we are getting water in. I would not fill with foam. It soaks up any water leaks and makes it hard to remove water later

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[steffen]

Your greatest risk is that the water inside starts the hydrolysis process breaking down the polyester resulting in acidic acid solution inside the rudder. This can rapidly eat away the ss rudder stock inside without you noticing it untill the rudder comes off in a force 6.
You can smel it easily when you sniff the water coming out of the rudder; it smells like vinagar or fresh silicone mastic.

My rudder had litteraly half the 1" ss stock eaten away by the time i got it opened.

Although there are many cases where people live with the problem i would take the winter to make a new rudder from marine grade ply and epoxy. Its not as difficult as it sounds.

Happy sailing, Steffen

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[Chris_Robb]

Freeze Damage

Whilst the problem of the corrosion of the stainless frame should be taken seriously, there is another problem - in a really cold winter, with water in the rudder - the ice will burst the rudder open. I have been told by a surveyor that a bronze plug should be fitted and drained every winter. Almost all runnders get water in apparently.

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[oldsaltoz]

G'day Ian,

Bit of quandary your in here, Don't use the foam filler from a pressure can as it will not prevent water entry, in fact it will retain water if it's not of the closed cell variety, so is next to useless under, or even near water.

At 30+ tears old I am sure I would be having a good look inside. This is not a major project, just lay her down and run the grinder along the length of the rudder just aft of the stock on side; after inspecting what you have exposed, you will know if you have to remove any more of the outer cover to check further.

When you have completed any minor works and clean up, you can fill any and all voids with a mix of epoxy resin and 'closed cell' balloons, thin this with about 20% metholated spirits to ensure it flows into the tight areas.

Now grind off about an inch or so at the interface between rudder stock and top/bottom of rudder. Install two '0' rings over the shaft, and push them tight together and smear a little wax polish over them after taping the shaft to make sure you get no polish on it. Now remove the tape and re glass the rudder stock to rudder interface with epoxy resin and cloth designed for use with epoxy, no chopped strand to be used.

You can now fair the rudder with a 80 grit paper on a strip of 5 mm ply about 5 mm long, (Small torture board); and, finally, apply 3 coats of epoxy resin and cloth, give it another sand (after washing), and then apply 3 coats of resin, wet on tacky is ok. a lick of polyurethane paint and some antifoul and you ready for a few more years.

I would also suggest you sand and apply epoxy to the other side of the rudder at the same time, this will ensure many more years of trouble free service.

I have used this method on a number of rudder repairs over the years and never had a client comlain about water in the rudder, even ten years later and still counting.

I hope this helps.



<hr width=100% size=1> Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[Avocet]

Hope it helps??????

IT SCARES THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME!!!!!!

...but thanks everyone, I guess I'll have to pluck up courage to peer in there sooner or later!

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[PeterGibbs]

Most rudders with a SS shaft hold a measure of water - it is not possible to completely seal them. In principle this should lead to failure from corrosion but this seems seldom to arise, so is clearly not such a pressing issue.

Having been through this I can tell you what I learned. You can buy a new blade.
You can cut open the old blade along the margins where it was sealed, repack and reseal; in a couple of years you are back to square one. You can drill a couple of strategic holes, drain down over the winter and replug with a moisture tolerant caulk before relaunching - this is what I did. That boat is still afloat and well without incident, 13 years later.

Good luck, but don't loose sleep over it.

PWG

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[Avocet]

Thanks all,

Just a quick update. I've drilled a hole in the bottom and over the last couple of days have got about a gallon of disgusting black water out. It doesn't smell at all of vinegar - just "old" water such as one might find in the bottom of a barrel. As I'd be in no danger of loosing the rudder if the tangs inside failed (it's pivoted top and bottom and protected along the full length of its leading edge by the back of the keel), I think I'll leave it alone from this winter (and concentrate on reinforcing the coachroof where the mast heel is slowly sinking instead!!!!) There are two "eye" fittings - one on each side of the trailing edge of the rudder so if the metal tangs break off inside I will be able to rig a line to each side to steer. I think (as I don't do much sailing) I'll live with it for a few more seasons at least!

Thanks again!

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