Royal Southampton Yatch Club, death of

[Blue Sunray]

And I think that is in large part why the club went under. You would have been very welcome and you are just the type of person the club needed but it, and many other yacht clubs, seem to give off an aura that they exclusivity for only 70 year old+ sailor types and so younger boaty types think they will not be welcome or will feel out of place.

Spot on. They put a fair bit of effort into attaching members including having a stand at SBS, removing joining fees, interviews and recommendations, but their (apparent) age profile is ridiculous, the last event we attended we appeared to be not only the only couple below retirement age but the only ones under 70 (average age must have been over 75) and they seem to have found themselves unable to get out of a vicious circle of being seen as a old people's club and thus unable to attract younger members and so getting ever older on average.

I've met some really nice people who are (were?) members but the OV clubhouse has been mostly deserted whenever we've thought to look and Maratimo Lounge, Banana Wharf or Oxford Street a much more attractive proposition (if only the former two did a decent pint, but RSYC's turnover was so low they couldn't either). IIRC they reduced the opening days to only four or five a week last year as they simply were not covering the costs of opening.

A few irrelevant, ignorant and/or chippy posts about MDL here though.

 

[Elessar]

Spot on. They put a fair bit of effort into attaching members including having a stand at SBS, removing joining fees, interviews and recommendations, but their (apparent) age profile is ridiculous, the last event we attended we appeared to be not only the only couple below retirement age but the only ones under 70 (average age must have been over 75) and they seem to have found themselves unable to get out of a vicious circle of being seen as a old people's club and thus unable to attract younger members and so getting ever older on average.

I've met some really nice people who are (were?) members but the OV clubhouse has been mostly deserted whenever we've thought to look and Maratimo Lounge, Banana Wharf or Oxford Street a much more attractive proposition (if only the former two did a decent pint, but RSYC's turnover was so low they couldn't either). IIRC they reduced the opening days to only four or five a week last year as they simply were not covering the costs of opening.

A few irrelevant, ignorant and/or chippy posts about MDL here though.

Considering the lively location I don’t understand how it felt so “old” either but it did. Usage has been going down over the years and it’s obvious it was dieing.
I remain a member and love using gins. Good training and dinghys for kids there. So they are doing good things, I don’t know why it went wrong.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Considering the lively location I don’t understand how it felt so “old” either but it did. Usage has been going down over the years and it’s obvious it was dieing.
I remain a member and love using gins. Good training and dinghys for kids there. So they are doing good things, I don’t know why it went wrong.

Handled well this could be the start of somewhat of a revival. Getting shot of the OV clubhouse should enable a significant reduction in the cost base, if they invest (time and effort as much as money) wisely at Gins, which has much more potential for dingy sailing and the younger market it could actually be a very good move for the future as a yacht/sailing club rather than a city centre dining club.

 

[Sailorsam101]

Maybe they should change their name....imagine Warsash sailing club having their only site in Portsmouth?

If they don't have a club house In Southampton it seems daft to use the name Southampton.

I do agree that things need to change with the whole yacht club scene...for some anyway. Boats are becoming far more accessible to more people meaning that it's not the playground of the rich anymore so the old fashioned yacht club type thing will just die off.

 

[jac]

Considering the lively location I don’t understand how it felt so “old” either but it did. Usage has been going down over the years and it’s obvious it was dieing.
I remain a member and love using gins. Good training and dinghys for kids there. So they are doing good things, I don’t know why it went wrong.

I think it's a vicious circle thing.

Boating in it's various shapes seems to have a declining and ageing profile. The young people who do try it will be drawn to dinghies, chartering abroad, flotillas holidays, racing experiences, courses etc here and maybe the occasional late sail bargain. What they are not doing in large numbers is buying cruising yachts to keep in the UK - look at the market for used sales or for moorings to see this impact elsewhere.

SO the use profile of many new potential members is different to that of the existing members'

If a club sticks with trying to satisfy it's existing membership then it will probably only attract people similar to it's existing members. When the existing members are in their 40's and50's, then recruiting more 40 and 50 year olds probably counts as new blood. But when the existing members are retired then it's hardly welcoming for the few 40 and 50 year old couples who perhaps have a family and are looking to join a club that they can all feel at home in.

In my own club we do seem to have some families. some of the rallies / events are very child friendly so it's not all doom and gloom but I would bet that many clubs are not the same.

Unfortunately I think many clubs will reach the realisation that their in terminal decline too late. As members age and are not replaced by new young people ( as the offering is not right,) then the club gets more out of touch with the needs of younger members. Average age increases making it LOOK less attractive to the casual visitor ( who wants to hang out at the local OAP home when you're 50 let alone 30) and as numbers fall, there is less money to invest in modernising premises / facilities, or keeping fees low and there is fewer new blood in to inject fresh thinking / lead new projects etc.

I think to succeed, yacht clubs need to look at the dinghy / youth market. They may be unable to offer the full dinghy experience of a proper dinghy club but could they partner with local dinghy clubs - discount on membership for each other but access to sail with the old codgers as crew. In return, children of YC members get to do youth courses etc. It provides an easy and familiar route for those graduating from dinghies to a more sedate lifestyle ( a full lifecycle for a typical sailor) yet provides the service to their members who maybe want to introduce children / grandchildren to a more hi octane / youth focussed sailing expereince

 

[CLB]

I went to an event there quite a few years ago. I was probably still in my 30's, just. I was made to feel quite welcome, until I was asked what boat I had. When I said a Mobo, those that were talking to me couldn't get away fast enough, with one woman physically turning her nose up, making a snooty comment and just walking away.

I haven't been back.

 

[Angele]

I have been on two rallies hosted by the Royal Southampton.

The first was at Ocean Village. I didn't come away with a warm feeling about the club.

The second - almost exactly three years ago - was at Gins. What a contrast. The staff were really friendly. They made us feel very welcome and the food and atmosphere were both excellent.

Can't help thinking that Gins is s bit too small and off the beaten track to be the only clubhouse for the RSYC.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I went to an event there quite a few years ago. I was probably still in my 30's, just. I was made to feel quite welcome, until I was asked what boat I had. When I said a Mobo, those that were talking to me couldn't get away fast enough, with one woman physically turning her nose up, making a snooty comment and just walking away.

I haven't been back.

That's unfortunate because the members that I know these days are about 50/50 split between disciplines, and they were almost universally friendly and welcoming (the only exception being a 'wife of'), but they are just so blooming old.

 

[Elessar]

I went to an event there quite a few years ago. I was probably still in my 30's, just. I was made to feel quite welcome, until I was asked what boat I had. When I said a Mobo, those that were talking to me couldn't get away fast enough, with one woman physically turning her nose up, making a snooty comment and just walking away.

I haven't been back.

One individual. I haven’t found that. I’ve always been welcomed. It just hasn’t got a buzz to it.

 

[RobbieW]

One individual. I haven’t found that. I’ve always been welcomed. It just hasn’t got a buzz to it.

Ho hum, I'd been to quite a few of the winter monthly carvery/quiz nights over the last two winters in OV and enjoyed them. Different format to many pub quizzes and enjoyable to a newcomer, I found a fair mix of ages - predominantly but not exclusively older. Also used to know some of the double handed racing people there but I understand that format is no longer in favour at the club

 

[prv]

That's unfortunate because the members that I know these days are about 50/50 split between disciplines

Presumably half the snooty sailors who were rude to CLB have since bought motorboats because they’re now too crumbly to cope with sails

Pete

 

[Blue Sunray]

Presumably half the snooty sailors who were rude to CLB have since bought motorboats because they’re now too crumbly to cope with sails

Pete

Quite probably.

 

[PEJ]

Unfortunately I think many clubs will reach the realisation that their in terminal decline too late. As members age and are not replaced by new young people ( as the offering is not right,) then the club gets more out of touch with the needs of younger members. Average age increases making it LOOK less attractive to the casual visitor ( who wants to hang out at the local OAP home when you're 50 let alone 30) and as numbers fall, there is less money to invest in modernising premises / facilities, or keeping fees low and there is fewer new blood in to inject fresh thinking / lead new projects etc.

I went on holiday to San Diego and since RSYC was a reciprocal club I thought I would check it out. They have an interesting solution to the aging membership.

They charge an initial fee to join which is zero up to age 26 and $300 at 29 then the fees ramp via $9,800 for a 45 year old and on up to $21,000 if you are 60 or over. There is a monthly fee and, interestingly, a minimum food and drink charge of $150 per month. I guess this makes the membership come to the club and have a meal on a regular basis since they are going to get charged for it anyway. That way it keeps the club house busy, a good idea I think.

https://sdyc.org/assets/documents/other_docs/membership_application_procedures.pdf

If you could get some of your RSYC membership fee back if you went to the club and ate something it would have encouraged more people to go and if they didn't, well the club has the money to pay the staff anyway.

 

[Angele]

If you could get some of your RSYC membership fee back if you went to the club and ate something it would have encouraged more people to go and if they didn't, well the club has the money to pay the staff anyway.

They already do that. See their 2018 fees here.

10% of your annual fee credited to your beer fund if you pay by annual direct debit.

 

[henryf]

Here's my conundrum with joining a sailing club - I'll ignore the question over whether motor boat cruising is sailing

If the club is based where my boat is moored then when I come down to the boat I want to get out and about, I don't want to sit on my berth in the marina. So why would I spend money to join? When I'm out cruising I could use reciprocal clubs but then just join the cheapest club with reciprocal arrangements which seems to be pretty much any RYA club, in fact I've even written the Haslar Cruising Club in the visitors book previously which isn't or certainly wasn't affiliated with anyone when I was a member (a few quid a year and some cruises in company).

So what do I actually get for my money other than possibly flying a blue ensign ?

Henry

 

[Tulkinghorn]

I received a letter notifying me that my membership fee for another Solent based Royal club has gone up by 8% this year. I'm rather concerned that this is going to be a repeated trend across the board unless some better management practices start to be brought in everywhere.

 

[maby]

I think the problem with yacht clubs is almost entirely the membership fee structure - but they really are in a no-win situation, I'm afraid. If you are a serious racer, then you will probably join a club because you want easy entry to the race calendar. I've come across a number of successful clubs that exist primarily for racing - they can keep their costs down by not having a posh club house - sometimes no club house at all - meet in a local pub. For the rest of us, the yacht club is effectively a private pub - and often a very expensive one! When we first got into sailing, we joined the Medway Yacht Club. We needed their services because the boat that we had bought was moored there and it needed work. A year later, we had the boat more or less up to scratch, we had moved it to a local marina rather than the yacht club swinging moorings and we were just using the clubhouse as a bar. The drinks were not noticeably cheaper than in the pub in the village and we were still paying a membership fee of several hundreds of pounds without using any of the sailing related facilities that it entitled us to. On our third year of membership we were spending most of our time in the boat and only visiting the clubhouse for special occasions - I sat at the bar one day with a pint of bitter in my hand, did a few "back-of-a-fag-packet" calculations and came to the conclusion that the beer was costing me close to £10 - that was our last year of membership.

I did suggest to the committee that they should consider introducing some kind of Social Level membership which granted access to the bar, but not to any of the other services and facilities. I might well have considered paying something like £50 per year for that. But, informally at least, they expressed the belief that such a move would not bring in many new members while the majority of the existing members would switch to the new membership level - slashing their income further.

We were berthed in Ocean Village until last year and we did pop into RSYC as visitors on a couple of occasions. It was a nice enough place but, once again, we resisted invitations to join on the basis that we would just be paying £20 per pint for the pleasure of sitting in their bar.

On the subject of MDL and Ocean Village Marina, we were MDL residents for about eight years including three years in Ocean Village - leaving this spring. MDL undoubtedly operate some of the most expensive marinas in each area, but they are often the best equipped. We enjoyed our time with them and their staff are almost always friendly and helpful. We enjoyed Ocean Village while we were there - and it was amongst the most affordable options for the Solent when we first moved in and the staff were very good. The trouble is that it is not really very well equipped - no fuel, no chandlery, no boatyard or engineering services and the facilities blocks are pretty basic. When the new hotel was finished, the MDL management tried to push up berthing prices on the basis of the new facilities and we reassessed our options. We've moved to Gosport and have very good facilities close to good sailing while saving around £2000 compared with the new MDL prices.

 

[Sailorsam101]

Reading all this makes me come to a single conclusion.

if you are not into yacht racing or dingy racing why would you join a yacht club with large fees? I thought about maybe looking at the clubs on the Hamble as i live in Hamble village and realised that all i would gain for about £800 was a nice view with my pint!

Some 20 years ago i spent a lot of time in and around Warsash sailing club and with the large garden and dingy building it often felt like a good family place that welcomed children. Still looks like its going strong.

 

[Walther]

Can't help thinking that Gins is a bit too small and off the beaten track to be the only clubhouse for the RSYC.

Yes, I agree.

As for the Yacht Club the fact it's a yacht club and has the word Royal in its title means I presume someone like me wouldn't be particularly welcome rocking up and plonking myself at the bar or looking for a meal.

Oh, I don't know. Clubs are non-profit but they are still in business and have to cover their expenses. As long as you are reasonably well-mannered (including compliance with any applicable dress code, which at most clubs now tends to be fairly relaxed), most clubs - with or without the Royal designation - will be happy to welcome you as an occasional guest. Of course, if you frequent the bar or restaurant repeatedly you will be asked to join and pay member's dues, which is fair enough.

The great majority of yacht clubs are not looking for reasons to turn away F&B customers. Too, most of their members, including flag officers, are just 'normal people' without any particular pretensions or arrogance. At least, that has been my experience at every club I've been to (I'm not a RSYC member but FWIW I do belong to another, rather better-known "Royal" YC).

If the club is based where my boat is moored then when I come down to the boat I want to get out and about, I don't want to sit on my berth in the marina. So why would I spend money to join?

So what do I actually get for my money other than possibly flying a blue ensign?

Almost all YCs worthy of the name provide active racing programs. Most also provide active cruising and social activities, and can be excellent places to meet and spend time with like-minded people. Finally, many YCs have nice bars, restaurants and accommodations.

If one or more of the amenities briefly listed above is of interest to you, and you have the disposable income, please consider joining.

If you see no value on those amenities, fine; YC membership is certainly not essential to enjoyment of sailing. Or if money is tight, it is probably better spent on chartering, new sails, courses, etc. (i.e., things more directly related to sailing).

P.S. YMMV, but personally I don't consider that the ability to obtain a warrant for the right to fly a blue ensign is worth much.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Spot on. They put a fair bit of effort into attaching members including having a stand at SBS, removing joining fees, interviews and recommendations, but their (apparent) age profile is ridiculous, the last event we attended we appeared to be not only the only couple below retirement age but the only ones under 70 (average age must have been over 75) and they seem to have found themselves unable to get out of a vicious circle of being seen as a old people's club and thus unable to attract younger members and so getting ever older on average.

There was a thread on the Thames forum a while back about a club that was looking for more young members, in part based on their excellent social programme. So I had a look at their website and found that every single social event was categorised as either "blazers and whites" or "blazers and greys". It's hard to imagine anyone under 70 finding that an attractive prospect.