round britain record boat - help required

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An Italian holds the round britain powerboat record, which is no good at all. An unlikely-name letter from J Verne in Nantes disagrees with such records. However, at least virtually, i.e. without lifting a finger, we ought to have a bit of pontificating about how to wrest this back.

First off, all the fast fast boats powerboats and sailing boats are catamarans. No good in choppy water say some altho our theroretical beast will only be whacking along on fairly flat water anyway, and anyway they only flip over at monster monster speeds over 100. So can we have that, or is there a good reason why not? Secondly, those gas turbines seem rather decently quick and very light, so praps we can have one or two of those as well.
 

ari

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Re the turbine boats, if you're talking virtually then you can virtually borrow mine!!

Ari. (Still dreaming about those turbine boats from lower down this forum..... Mmmmm....)
 
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Re: rules of engagement

It can't be just completely made up make-believe, tho thanks for the help. Anyway, your dream was one of those 30 footers, so it won't have enough dream tankage to make it round. Incidentally, any idea of the fuel consumption of "your" 30 foot turbine boat?
 

BarryD

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Re: rules of engagement - Fueling

Matt raises a question - are these things measured from A to B or if you need to fuel do they "time-out"? I'm assuming that any sensible team won't need to pop into a harbour / marina lock in/ out etc.. and obey 8knts harbour limits!

There are a large number of broken ex RAF aircraft around with air to air refueling kits - i.e. a large probe, we'd just need to rent a helicopter to fly ahead or to one side with a drouge chute and basket job. Then we can refuel on the hoof. USAF ones are no good as they have fixed links that a bouncing speed boat might object too.

Barry D.
 

ari

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Re: rules of engagement

I've got around the whole fuel costs thing.

I'm going to have an imaginary fuel berth and moor my imaginary turbine boat there......

How about we get some imaginary refuelling planes and refuel "on the run" like they do with jet fighters?? We'll obviously need to imagine good weather and calm seas for this to work though....

Ari (feeling more surreal by the minute... :-s )
 
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Ok.. Let's start by asking what hardware the Eyeties used, what their fuelling regime was, what conditions they operated in etc etc. Analysing their project is a good way of delivering a better one!!

Any idea Matts?

KCA
 
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Re: nope, jet anyone?

Can't refuel at sea. And the stops do count towards the overall time. However, the records are still held by commercial with an axe to grind - in other buzzi is developing boats/gears to sell. The others used a useable rib.

Land sped records lasted until the forties like this. After that, they just tried to go nice and fast.

These turbines are all very well, but not very quick. What we need is a nice jet engine. Unlimited power band, so none of that rubbish about two speed gear boxes. Also makes a complete and utter racket, so preventing any journos nodding off. The deep-vee thing looks quite good too, bet obviously lots more speed to be had if it only gets 45 ful of fuel, 65 empty. Nice steady seventy, full of fuel. That should do very nicely.
 

KevB

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Re: nope, jet anyone?

Theoreticlly sea planes are classed as boats when they are in the water, why not use one of these with a jet turbine strapped to the top. Don't no if there is anything in the rules about how long the 'boat' has to be in the water, we can claim it was just bouncing over the waves.
 
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Re: nope, jet anyone?

this is more like it. A harrier with a dinghy strapped to its bottom.
 
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there's not a load of info. The mags got bored of covering records. If there are details, it must be in Nov issues of mags.

Beleieve they started and stopped in london, which seems a bit silly to choose as a start point. Much better to use , well start point.

Record is 80 feet long, 80 tons, 34 of fuel. Surface drives, two speed boxes. Essentially they want to sell these boast commercially.

Two classes, one under 50 feet, the other above. No other power limits. So, although a jumpjet is a bit naughty, a wide wide three-hull fifty footer is fine. Or a tow hulled job. The old 43footer class one jobs wd seem ok, filled with AVgas and a jet on the top. We're obviously still at the brainstorming stage
 
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Re: secret squirrel

wot about that grey secret squirrel thing that appears in the Solent from time to time? half submarine (or so it seems) - drives through waves rather than bouncing over them. Seems ideal for rough water circum-thingy...
 
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Re: ooh

a secret squirrel? Any more info? Is it v fast? and how does it work?
 
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Re: ooh

yes, very fast. very grey, very secret. looks like a half submerged upside down powerboat with a cockpit on top. big bushy grey tail. length:beam ratio is about a million to one.
 
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Re: excellent

I knew I could count on the technical prowess of this BB. BarryD's sent me a pic of a suicidal helicopter facing groundwards and using its "lift" to pull things along. Now, there's the radical hush-hush nut-powered semi-submersible "Thin Rodent" concept from GW. I bet the Italians simply didn't even think of these possibilities.
 
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Re: It\'s real: help, Kim!

big long grey thing, bow designed to stuff into waves, not ride up over 'em. Been around a while, even featured in one of the mags a year or two back.

Kim, any ideas? I couldn't find anything on a web search. Please help me prove to matts that I haven't been sniffing the white board markers again...
 

jfm

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Re: diesels better than jets??

This is tricky. Jet is praps dodgy idea for 'gine I think. Yes, fantastic zero drag in the water, much better than Arnies where half the prop still in the water. But trying desperately to remember thermo lectures (do you still have your notes?) and suspect they will not work efficiently at low altitude/low speed with varying throttle, whereas at high/high they are about the most efficient prime movers man has ever made (95% thermal efficiency, better even than low rpm massive 2-stroke diesels)?

Hull wise, unless the budget runs to a 60knot submarine (heavy design cost, though savings on marina fees later), it needs to be a 90 foot cat and just wait for weather window. Wave piercing hull is not the way to go (I note no-one has bothered to copy CableWirelessChallenger, reduced now to Lenny Henry's supply boat and corporate charter)

So we need massive planing cat, exotic hull materials, every kg saved is a kg of diesel (or 1050 grammes with Solly), two or 4 massive turboed 2 stroke diesels (have to be custom made), lots of computers, Arnesons, on-the-move refueling (slow down to 10 knots, pass across the filler pipe, connect up, then 30 knots while fuel (pre-sollyed by Colin) is transferred, dump the fuel pipe and back to 75kts). Air reconnaisance to advise ahead of time whether left or right side of IoM is calmer, etc etc. Maybe crew rota because get knackered quickly, eg Nick can do the Scottish Islands, BarryD and Colin will take lower E Coast and Cape-of-Kent, Matts IoW (because sunny, though not sunny enuf), Haydn Cornwall, etc.

Massive corporate sponsorship not a prob
 
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Re: oho

Think we need enuf space for a jolly party all on board, cos hardly any time for refuleling which cannot be done at sea. Else cheating with being secretly dragged along praps. Fraid not too much space for lectronix, anyway a garmin and a magellan should be ok. Yiou can't have many if any fuelling stops. Turn it on and go OUTSIDE solent methinks else load of mouth from the yottie.

Not too sure bout the 90 footer. See, 49 footer wins the records AND the under 50 footer too so none of that carping ah well you lot etc etc. Mind you it can be very very wide.

The idea of the jet was the simplicity, strap on and go, no gearboxy complexities. And nice and british too, with Rolls Royce RB two-eleven. Steering by means of erm well we'll have to have a chat with the racing chaps, for whom 70mph is tickover speed.

I seem to remember that a 747 uses 125 tons of fuel to get to new York. With no refuleling at all it's bound to be better. So, 90 footer, special fuel pumps to take fuel out of here and there for balance. A steady seventy should be ok, twenty hours, so start at 3 in the morning and back for last orders.

Don't see why jet won't work at low altitude, tho they will be knackered with salty spray praps and parts of crew getting sliced through the blades. High inlet density, see? Or something. if we just get the engine right, can be a nice screamer, high wailing revs with top efficiency.
 

jfm

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Re: high bypass ratio is good

Yes that has possibilities. RB 2-11 has massive bypass ratio, so it is really a gas turbine powered fan. I was thinking more of a real jet when you said it, one where all the stuff that gets squirted out the back has been thru the combustion chamber not round the outside.

But yes, a big fan could be the way to go. Works better at low speed. Willy be like massive bored out florida everglades skimmy boat! Will think some more. Massive bhp in turbo fan, so it's a straightforward trade off between weight of fuel, weight of boat, drag of boat, speed. Need to get some weight/consumption data on turbo fan, then a few simul eqns should crack it. Also turbo fans dirt cheap provided you buy still attached to an 18yr old aeroplane from a forecourt in Nevada. MrsS could do delivery flight back, Magellan/Garmin nav, massive BB party at Caesars the night before, then we we could chop up the surplus fuselage at Biggin Hill and take to the ali can recycling tub at sainsburys (might need a few trips) and anything clunky/alarmy (like stall alarm) plus seats (better than citroen XM) can be donated to Priddy

Chicken wire shd fix crew limbs in the fan problem. Will need mobile RR engine service agent in Solent, Pauline B will know one. I will check a few RB2-11 stats and refine.....
 
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