Rope ladders, do they work?

[[2574]]

I'm thinking of making a rope ladder as an aid to MOB recovery. My Nauticat has a 48inch freeboard so I'm thinking of an eight feet long ropeladder secured to the midships cleat and slung over a fat fender just below the cleat in order to move the ladder away from the hull to facilitate foot space on the wooden treads. I guess the major issue is the ladder wanting to disappear under the hull when the user steps on it which might make it unusable but at present I 'm keen to give it a go to see if it works. Any tips?

Rob

 

[RichardS]

Unless you have some experience, the best way to use an unsecured rope ladder is to climb up from the side. I suspect this will be difficult against the hull of a boat.

Richard

 

[BlueChip]

I have a short one on the inflatable we swim from in the Med.
We find it almost very difficult to climb for the reason you point out, dressed in sailing gear I doubt we'd manage it.

 

[TQA]

I guess the major issue is the ladder wanting to disappear under the hull when the user steps on it which might make it unusable but at present I 'm keen to give it a go to see if it works. Any tips?

Rob

Make the treads wide and the rope coming through the outer 1/3 of the tread. This way you can get your hads on the rope and your foot on a tread and IF YOU HAVE GOOD UPPER BODY STRENGTH get back on board.

Be very aware that if tired and encumbered by heavy wet clothes you may not make it.

OK for the young and fit, not so good for the older weaker sailors like me.

 

[BlueChip]

As richardS said the only effective way to climb a rope ladder in the water is from the side with alternate feet either side of the ladder, this is harder than it sounds.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

In a word NO (even with wooden rungs).

 

[CelebrityScandel]

As the Grumpy one has already said - "NO".

Rope ladders sound all very sea salty but they are a very poor solution most of the time and no solution at all for MOB. But if one is of the poser type who sports a grey beard and gold fringed officers' cap, etc then it will serve to satisfy ones ego all of the time.

We have always carried a rope ladder that just goes to the water level for boarding from tenders if too rough to access via a stern ladder but they rarely get used except by active crew because they are difficult for many to climb even for that purpose let alone if getting out of the water weighed down with wet clothes and tired.

If you persist then in my view your suggested approach is wrong -

With 8ft of wooden runged ladder and 4 foot freeboard unless you hang a dirty great weight on the bottom end of it you will end up with 4 foot of ladder floating around on the sea surface creating a nuisance of itself. Several treads need to be below the surface vertically down if there is any hope of being able to climb the ladder ex the water (this can only be reliably done with a rigid ladder).

If you hang the ladder over a fender to keep it away from the side of the boat to give tread space it will swing into the side of the boat when the MOB climbs onto the ladder (if they actually manage to which is doubtful) making it even more difficult to use. As you say, climbing onto rungs under the water, if the MOB should manage to do so, their feet will swing under the boat to the extent that the turn of the bilge permits.

The rungs should be wide enough for feet and have 2 ropes through them each end to stop them tipping. Ours are teak about 5 inches or so wide at each end and about an inch or so narrower over most of their length so they will lie against the lengthways curve of the hull without wobbling from side to side. One has to get the treads nicely spaced up the ropes and it is a major job to try and do this with knots so we use lengths of PVC pipe just big enough to slide over the ropes and of length to give the correct riser between the treads. The whole concertinas together into a bundle when not used and tied up with the top rope ends

It also needs to hang between the gate stanchions so when one climbs up the ladder there is something to hold onto to pull oneself aboard and a clear path through the lifelines. In my view that is not a good place to put a cleat on the deck as it is a trip hazard for boarding and disembarking (especially) unless one uses two cleats each outside of the pathway of the gate. In our case we have designed our boats so our rope ladders clipped onto punched holes in the toe rail, the two ropes each side of the ladder coming together and tied and then a spring clip on each of the single parts left.

 

[charles_reed]

I'm thinking of making a rope ladder as an aid to MOB recovery. My Nauticat has a 48inch freeboard so I'm thinking of an eight feet long ropeladder secured to the midships cleat and slung over a fat fender just below the cleat in order to move the ladder away from the hull to facilitate foot space on the wooden treads. I guess the major issue is the ladder wanting to disappear under the hull when the user steps on it which might make it unusable but at present I 'm keen to give it a go to see if it works. Any tips?

Rob

No - it's difficult enough to climb a rope-ladder when coming out after a swim, never mind fully clothed and waterlogged after a MOB incident when they're worse than useless.

You need a fixed ladder with the bottom rung at least 450mm below sea-level.

 

[guernseyman]

No - it's difficult enough to climb a rope-ladder when coming out after a swim, never mind fully clothed and waterlogged after a MOB incident when they're worse than useless.

You need a fixed ladder with the bottom rung at least 450mm below sea-level.

I would add that, from experience of one MOB incident, a hook-on type metal alloy ladder may be unable to support the weight of a fully clothed and waterlogged adult unless addressed square on so that both of the hooks are in use.

 

[[2574]]

Thank you all, it rather sounds as though it will not be a useful endeavour and therefore I will not progress. Nonetheless I am adamant that somehow I should make provision for a MOB to at least be able to assist in his/her own recovery if he/she is in a physical condition so to do. It seems a rigid climbing structure of some sort is required but the storage and simple deployment of a ladder which is probably something like 2300mm long is not easy. I also agree that the aluminium ladders which can be bought in chandlers do not seem up to the job, they seem to be more for the purpose of controlled boarding from a dinghy.

rob

 

[prv]

Agree with everyone else that it's tricky for swimming and almost entirely useless for MOB.

On Stavros (and William, as was) there's occasionally an opportunity to swim from the ship at anchor. The way to get back out is a rope ladder, one of the really big and sturdy ones used for pilot boarding. We also rig a pair of manropes beside it, and handrails at the bulwark gate. Nevertheless, it's quite an effort to climb even in swimming trunks, and a helicopter strop is put ready at the top because inevitably a few people will need help to get up it.

Pete

 

[Graham_Wright]

Thank you all, it rather sounds as though it will not be a useful endeavour and therefore I will not progress. Nonetheless I am adamant that somehow I should make provision for a MOB to at least be able to assist in his/her own recovery if he/she is in a physical condition so to do. It seems a rigid climbing structure of some sort is required but the storage and simple deployment of a ladder which is probably something like 2300mm long is not easy. I also agree that the aluminium ladders which can be bought in chandlers do not seem up to the job, they seem to be more for the purpose of controlled boarding from a dinghy.

rob

Buy a drop down/ pull down SS runged ladder but make sure the stand-offs are properly thought through. You should find them on eBay.

 

[charles_reed]

Thank you all, it rather sounds as though it will not be a useful endeavour and therefore I will not progress. Nonetheless I am adamant that somehow I should make provision for a MOB to at least be able to assist in his/her own recovery if he/she is in a physical condition so to do. It seems a rigid climbing structure of some sort is required but the storage and simple deployment of a ladder which is probably something like 2300mm long is not easy. I also agree that the aluminium ladders which can be bought in chandlers do not seem up to the job, they seem to be more for the purpose of controlled boarding from a dinghy.

rob

Any sizeable boat, without an adequate ladder will fail a survey, Quite rightly as I've discovered during my occasional duties on an RNLI inshore rescue craft.

I'd also condemn as inadequate any clip-on unit - don't expect any help from a casualty getting him or her out of the water. Why not talk with your local RNLI cox, he's a real pro on rescue and far more likely to give you correct advice than you're likely to get from the well-intentioned forum.

 

[GrahamM376]

We have a fixed stern ladder but that's a bit "iffy" if not smooth. Other options we have are sling on a mainsheet type tackle which can be snap-shackled to the boom or a halyard. Lastly, as the dinghy is always inflated, there's the option of part or fully deflating the bow tube and dragging casualty aboard that, then on to the boat.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

if you do make one, then weight the bottom rung..... otherwise it floats!

Also, the bottom rung needs to be a surprisingly large way underwater.... at least 4 feet.

 

[ProDave]

I have a rope ladder I bought from ebay.

It's actually a piece of rope each side and a string of plastic rungs.

I use it every year to board the boat when launching from the slipway.

As soon as the trailer is far enough in and the boat starts to float, I climb on board up the ladder wearing my waders. In this case with the ladder over the side at the front from the front mooring cleat.

 

[lw395]

In my experience of boarding in diving gear, a rope is hard work, but a bloody sight easier than no ladder at all.
Stern ladders are all very well in flat water, in a seaway, you want to be boarding at the chains.
Unless you are going to engineer something better that works at the side of the boat where the motion is least etc, I would have a decent rope ladder in the inventory.
I agree you want it to extend below the water. you will want to be able to weight the bottom with something substantial. A diving belt works.
In calm water, boarding via the dinghy is easier.

A ladder of any sort is not total fix for the problem, but to assist someone on a ladder using a halyard is going to be much easier than without a ladder.
In the event of a MOB scenario where someone has to go over the side (part way?) to get a halyard on a casualty, a rope ladder is a big help for the helper. Your stern ladder is NFU in this situation.

For the cost of a few bits of scrap hardwood and some rope, it may just make the difference. It's another tool in the box.

 

[lw395]

...

Also, the bottom rung needs to be a surprisingly large way underwater.... at least 4 feet.

and the top rung can be quite a way below the sheerline.
But a good hand hold or man rope well above deck helps too.

 

[[2574]]

In my experience of boarding in diving gear, a rope is hard work, but a bloody sight easier than no ladder at all.
Stern ladders are all very well in flat water, in a seaway, you want to be boarding at the chains.
Unless you are going to engineer something better that works at the side of the boat where the motion is least etc, I would have a decent rope ladder in the inventory.
I agree you want it to extend below the water. you will want to be able to weight the bottom with something substantial. A diving belt works.
In calm water, boarding via the dinghy is easier.

A ladder of any sort is not total fix for the problem, but to assist someone on a ladder using a halyard is going to be much easier than without a ladder.
In the event of a MOB scenario where someone has to go over the side (part way?) to get a halyard on a casualty, a rope ladder is a big help for the helper. Your stern ladder is NFU in this situation.

For the cost of a few bits of scrap hardwood and some rope, it may just make the difference. It's another tool in the box.

Well that's interesting and was my kind of thinking. With no climbing route whatsoever one is knackered so as to speak. Perhaps it's limitations should be acknowledged but nonetheless be provisioned for deployment as a last resort. Hmmmmmmmm

 

[Roberto]

I'm thinking of making a rope ladder as an aid to MOB recovery. My Nauticat has a 48inch freeboard so I'm thinking of an eight feet long ropeladder secured to the midships cleat and slung over a fat fender just below the cleat in order to move the ladder away from the hull to facilitate foot space on the wooden treads. I guess the major issue is the ladder wanting to disappear under the hull when the user steps on it which might make it unusable but at present I 'm keen to give it a go to see if it works. Any tips?

Rob

I don't know if it qualifies as a rope ladder, rather a webbing ladder maybe

I have this on the side on the boat near the transom, where the hull has a bit of flare.
I had to use it in anger once when I had to dive to get rid of a fishing line around the propeller, I could come up very easily, I was with just a swimming suit so I do not know about being fully dressed on oilies and half drowned as a MOB etc, but FWIW it was very easy to climb it.

To tell the full story I was also terrified by the sharks I had seen on the quays of the fishing port the day before

When packed it's like this, one can grab the loop from the water and tear it open, and when fully extended it goes underwater but cannot geto to the propeller (in case you perseverate and need measurements)